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Old 10-16-2018, 08:33 AM   #15
17txcamaross
 
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Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
I understand that the ECU doesn’t use IAT2 directly, but it is a big part of the manifold air temp calculation as far as I know. But like you mentioned, it’s a good PID to use for diagnostic purposes — which is why I was referencing it in this situation. MAT is what I pay attention to when logging.

That said, does an LT1 even use manifold air temp?
I believe the LT1 uses manifold air temp which is still a calculated nmber, but I am not 100% sure.

For the LT1 we have to isntall a pigtail harness to run the IAT2 which then reads as IAT1 through the OBDII port to the P3 gauge. This is the temp that is way off on mine.

I spoke with a buddy at GM yesterday and it seems the ZL1 often runs very hot with no worries of temps exceeding 140's-150s.

Can someone provide a log showing that the blower temps are only 10* higher than the ambient outside air? This morning the blower was 100-110 with outside temps of 55* and high humidity(it is misting here in Houston). Once I got into stop and go traffic the temps climbed up to the 130s from lack of air flow.

One other thing that was mentioned was a possible heat shield between the valley cover/heads and the blower. Is this a stock part that I should have under my blower? Is it possible I am seeing higher temps due to heat transfer from the engine?

Thanks everyone for your help here. I am learning on my first supercharged vehicle and every piece of advice is appreciated.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17txcamaross View Post
I believe the LT1 uses manifold air temp which is still a calculated nmber, but I am not 100% sure.

For the LT1 we have to isntall a pigtail harness to run the IAT2 which then reads as IAT1 through the OBDII port to the P3 gauge. This is the temp that is way off on mine.

I spoke with a buddy at GM yesterday and it seems the ZL1 often runs very hot with no worries of temps exceeding 140's-150s.

Can someone provide a log showing that the blower temps are only 10* higher than the ambient outside air? This morning the blower was 100-110 with outside temps of 55* and high humidity(it is misting here in Houston). Once I got into stop and go traffic the temps climbed up to the 130s from lack of air flow.

One other thing that was mentioned was a possible heat shield between the valley cover/heads and the blower. Is this a stock part that I should have under my blower? Is it possible I am seeing higher temps due to heat transfer from the engine?

Thanks everyone for your help here. I am learning on my first supercharged vehicle and every piece of advice is appreciated.
the link in my last post has a half dozen screen shots of logs AFTER pulls with IAT2s close to IAT1s. you have air in the bricks IMO.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:06 PM   #17
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the link in my last post has a half dozen screen shots of logs AFTER pulls with IAT2s close to IAT1s. you have air in the bricks IMO.
Thank you for all the input, I thought I had everything out, but I must not. Going to try either driving the car up onto a 2x4 or even jacking the front end up a bit and seeing if the air bubble will come to the bleed valve on the front of the blower. I did take the time to read the article...or most of it. Very interesting read, but the chiller is a bit too pricey for me right now.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:10 PM   #18
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Also, after talking talking Ted the SS does not actually read the IAT1s as it is relocated to the TMAP Sensor.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 17txcamaross View Post
Also, after talking talking Ted the SS does not actually read the IAT1s as it is relocated to the TMAP Sensor.
Yeah, it’s probably like the supercharged LS motors I’ve done. The IAT sensor simply gets moved. So while it’s technically the IAT1 PID, it’s in the location of the IAT2 sensor on a stock ZL1.

I can post some screen shots later from some of my logs. I can tell you mine are never more than 20 degrees apart though. I’ll show you what mine looks like on a steady freeway drive. I log ambient temp, IAT1, IAT2, and MAT.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:22 AM   #20
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Yeah, it’s probably like the supercharged LS motors I’ve done. The IAT sensor simply gets moved. So while it’s technically the IAT1 PID, it’s in the location of the IAT2 sensor on a stock ZL1.

I can post some screen shots later from some of my logs. I can tell you mine are never more than 20 degrees apart though. I’ll show you what mine looks like on a steady freeway drive. I log ambient temp, IAT1, IAT2, and MAT.
Thank you, any data I can get will be helpful. After checking last night it seems the blower is not level when the car is sitting in the garage...garage is level or seemed that way when I did the floor coating, but obviously the nose sits low. I will be trying to drive up on ramps or using the driveway to assist in getting the blower level and ensuring the bleed valve on the blower is at the highest point. Then retry bleeding the system.

I won't be able to tell what the variance is between my IAT1 and IAT2, but will know what approx ambient is based on the MyLink outside temp. I also wonder if my catless Speed Engineering headers are playing a role in the rise in temp during stop and go traffic...although even at a steady freeway cruise temps are in the 120s with it being in the 50s here in Houston.

Somehow I will get this figured out and then get this beast over to MS Tuning for a couple dyno pulls and a solid number.
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:45 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 17txcamaross View Post
Thank you, any data I can get will be helpful. After checking last night it seems the blower is not level when the car is sitting in the garage...garage is level or seemed that way when I did the floor coating, but obviously the nose sits low. I will be trying to drive up on ramps or using the driveway to assist in getting the blower level and ensuring the bleed valve on the blower is at the highest point. Then retry bleeding the system.

I won't be able to tell what the variance is between my IAT1 and IAT2, but will know what approx ambient is based on the MyLink outside temp. I also wonder if my catless Speed Engineering headers are playing a role in the rise in temp during stop and go traffic...although even at a steady freeway cruise temps are in the 120s with it being in the 50s here in Houston.

Somehow I will get this figured out and then get this beast over to MS Tuning for a couple dyno pulls and a solid number.

Mine never gets anywhere near 120 when driving in similar conditions, and I also have headers. I took mine to run a few errands last night, but it was all city type driving without very much airflow over the heat exchangers. Even after parking the car and letting it heat soak, it was only 25 degrees above ambient. It was about 70 outside, IAT1 was reading 75, and IAT2 was 95. Had I jumped on the freeway, it would have dropped pretty quickly.

Maybe a dumb question, but have you checked the temps after the car sits overnight and completely cools? If the sensor has been calibrated correctly, it should read within a degree or two of the ambient reading.

I’ll try to do a longer drive or look to see if I have any logs with good data.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:42 PM   #22
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I'll check that here in a few when I leave work. Car has been sitting now for about 10 hours outside. It's 63 outside and I'm guessing the temp will be close...if not then maybe we have an issue there. This would be something the tuner could adjust correct? I don't know my way around HP Tuners, but I'm sure I can get him to take care of it if this is the issue.
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by 17txcamaross View Post
I'll check that here in a few when I leave work. Car has been sitting now for about 10 hours outside. It's 63 outside and I'm guessing the temp will be close...if not then maybe we have an issue there. This would be something the tuner could adjust correct? I don't know my way around HP Tuners, but I'm sure I can get him to take care of it if this is the issue.
Yes, you usually need to change the sensor calibration value when you swap to a different sensor. It’s pretty simple, but I can also see it being easily overlooked. That said, I don’t know much about the LT1 or the LT4 blower swap. The sensor calibration could be the same for all I know. Just figured I’d mention it before you go any further.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #24
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Yes, you usually need to change the sensor calibration value when you swap to a different sensor. It’s pretty simple, but I can also see it being easily overlooked. That said, I don’t know much about the LT1 or the LT4 blower swap. The sensor calibration could be the same for all I know. Just figured I’d mention it before you go any further.
Checked and the only thing I could see being off would be if it should be NA TIAP instead of NA MAP in the HP TUners menus.

Yesterday afternoon the temp was within 3 degrees of the MyLink when I fired her up...almost makes me think the calibration is correct and I am still looking at air in the line somewhere.

On another note, a buddy of mine who is also here on the forums logged his A10 ZL1 and after sitting at idle for 10 minutes the blower temps were 127. This is with no other driving. Did not see what the temps were when driving though.

I will be back to the drawing board tomorrow morning when I am off work for the day and able to see if I can find an air pocket anywhere and make changes to the sensor calibration if needed.

Does anyone have a screen shot of an LT1-LT4 tune that shows the scaling for NA MAP or NA TIAP? Is there a difference?

Again, thank you everyone for your assistance here. The forum has been very welcoming to questions in the 2 years I have had the Camaro...some forums just aren't that way.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 17txcamaross View Post
Checked and the only thing I could see being off would be if it should be NA TIAP instead of NA MAP in the HP TUners menus.

Yesterday afternoon the temp was within 3 degrees of the MyLink when I fired her up...almost makes me think the calibration is correct and I am still looking at air in the line somewhere.

On another note, a buddy of mine who is also here on the forums logged his A10 ZL1 and after sitting at idle for 10 minutes the blower temps were 127. This is with no other driving. Did not see what the temps were when driving though.

I will be back to the drawing board tomorrow morning when I am off work for the day and able to see if I can find an air pocket anywhere and make changes to the sensor calibration if needed.

Does anyone have a screen shot of an LT1-LT4 tune that shows the scaling for NA MAP or NA TIAP? Is there a difference?

Again, thank you everyone for your assistance here. The forum has been very welcoming to questions in the 2 years I have had the Camaro...some forums just aren't that way.
I can post a screen shot when I get home. Don’t have my tuning laptop with me.

Was your buddy logging manifold air temp or IAT2? Big difference as you probably know. Sitting there at idle is one thing — both IAT readings will climb when you do that. Even an NA engine does this. But they should drop pretty quickly once you get moving. I wouldn’t be too worried about that. I’d be much more concerned with what it reads on say a steady freeway cruise or a high speed pull.

I haven’t driven the car much this week, but I’ll take it out this weekend for sure. I have a bunch of logs, but I don’t really keep track of the conditions and what I was doing. I’ll get a fresh one for you so I can tell you exactly what the data reflects.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:00 PM   #26
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I can post a screen shot when I get home. Don’t have my tuning laptop with me.

Was your buddy logging manifold air temp or IAT2? Big difference as you probably know. Sitting there at idle is one thing — both IAT readings will climb when you do that. Even an NA engine does this. But they should drop pretty quickly once you get moving. I wouldn’t be too worried about that. I’d be much more concerned with what it reads on say a steady freeway cruise or a high speed pull.

I haven’t driven the car much this week, but I’ll take it out this weekend for sure. I have a bunch of logs, but I don’t really keep track of the conditions and what I was doing. I’ll get a fresh one for you so I can tell you exactly what the data reflects.
Thanks. Hopefully I can find where the air is tomorrow. Also maybe @weapons can chime in on whether to calibrate as na map or na tiap.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:29 PM   #27
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So here’s a quick screen shot of my IAT2 sensor curve. If you’re running the ZL1 T-MAP, then I’d assume these are the values that should be in your IAT1 table.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:59 PM   #28
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I took the car out for a drive today, and grabbed a few logs like I promised. We’re having a freak October heat wave, so it was 90-91 degrees outside the entire trip. I started the car cold, let it idle for about 10 minutes, and did another 5 minutes of stop and go driving before getting on the freeway. The freeway drive was about 15 minutes.

When I exited the freeway, the My Link was showing 91 degrees. My IAT1 was at 93 degrees, and IAT2 was at 100 degrees.

I did probably another 10 minutes of city driving before parking the car to run into Best Buy, then to grab some lunch. This gave it a good chance to heat soak. IAT1 had crept up to 104, and IAT2 had reached 111 by the time I shut it off. This was after sitting at a few stop lights and moving through slow moving traffic in 90+ degree temps.

After letting the car sit parked for 20 minutes or so, it was warm. When I started it up, IAT1 was at 129, and IAT2 was 133. Not too shocking considering it was 91 degrees and parked with a fully warmed up engine.

I headed back to the freeway, and temps had dropped to 95 degrees (IAT1) and 122 (IAT2) by the time I hit the on-ramp. This was only about 3 minutes of driving at 50 mph or so.

After 8 minutes on the freeway (including a quick WOT pull to speeds I won’t mention), temps had dropped to 91 degrees on IAT1 (exactly what the My Link display was showing), and IAT2 was at 102.

I hope that helps as to the delta between ambient temp and IAT2 on a ZL1 with stock heat exchangers during normal driving. As you can see, my IAT2s are typically no more than 10 degrees over ambient as long as the engine hasn’t been shut off and allowed to heat soak, or sit idling in traffic. And even after letting it sit and hit over 130 degrees, it quickly recovered.
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