Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Tuning / Diagnostics


Bigwormgraphix


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-12-2018, 03:05 PM   #1
Joel2702zzz
 
Drives: My Dad's car is a '16 1SS 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Menifee CA
Posts: 76
Doesn't Make Any Sense

2016 SS M6 with catless LT headers, MSD manifold, CAI, ported TB, and E85.
Using the hptuners horsepower calculation the car made 479 hp at 6000 rpm with 21.5 degrees of timing, then, above 6000 there is a lot of knock retard (6-10 degrees) but, car still makes good power even with the timing retard at high rpm. Now what doesn't make sense is that with 25 degrees of timing at 6000 it makes crappy power but doesn't knock much at above 6000 but it makes way less power, is this possibly false knock?
Joel2702zzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 04:33 PM   #2
KingLT1


 
KingLT1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,764
Have the knock sensors been adjusted in the tune? If not there is your issue.
__________________
2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP
Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP
Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA
KingLT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 06:10 PM   #3
asrautox
 
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 154
I thought 21-22 degrees was MBT on these engines. If you’re going past MBT, a drop in power is to be expected...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
2017 1SS 1LE - Eibach Springs | Pray IM | Katech TB | Borla 60606 | Corsa Extreme | E85 Flex Tune
asrautox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 08:09 PM   #4
Joel2702zzz
 
Drives: My Dad's car is a '16 1SS 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Menifee CA
Posts: 76
The knock sensors have been adjusted.
Joel2702zzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 08:30 PM   #5
KonigWolf
 
Drives: 2016 2SS A8
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Conway, Arkansas
Posts: 217
On E85 I'm at around 30 degrees of timing at WOT. You might not have the knock sensors turned down enough, or the burst knock decay correct.
__________________
16 Summit White 2SS-MRC-NPP-A8 :: PrayPorted IM - LT5 TB - Mishimoto Catch Can - RotorFab - E85 - TSP 2" LongTubes - Speed Engineering X/Mid Pipe

DIY Hpt Tune - DR - 1.75-60' - 7.47@95 - 11.56@120 with +2676DA
KonigWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2018, 11:56 AM   #6
Joel2702zzz
 
Drives: My Dad's car is a '16 1SS 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Menifee CA
Posts: 76
Really? from what I have seen the car doesn't make good power anything higher than 22 degrees.
Joel2702zzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2018, 12:20 AM   #7
KingLT1


 
KingLT1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,764
Bolt-on setups should make power with 24 degrees on 93 and 28-30degrees on E85 if the tune is right.
__________________
2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP
Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP
Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA
KingLT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2018, 11:07 AM   #8
CesarT
 
Drives: '17 1ss
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Borger
Posts: 93
Running 30-31 here on e85
CesarT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2018, 06:13 PM   #9
cmitchell17

 
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel2702zzz View Post
Really? from what I have seen the car doesn't make good power anything higher than 22 degrees.
I agree with you. I think people run too much timing. If these heads and pistons are so much more efficient and all the analysis done on the combustion chamber then it seems like we are loosing power from all this timing. I don't have any evidence to back this up though since I don't have a dyno available.

E85 is another story since I can't find much scientific literature on the subject. Looking at the factory tunes for the flex fuel engines makes it even more confusing since some of the tunes for different engines don't seem to agree.
cmitchell17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2018, 10:21 AM   #10
Joel2702zzz
 
Drives: My Dad's car is a '16 1SS 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Menifee CA
Posts: 76
Yeah there's a reason we bought hptuners so we're not gonna go get it tuned by someone. So, we're in for the long haul in regards to tuning.
Joel2702zzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2018, 11:01 AM   #11
KingLT1


 
KingLT1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
I agree with you. I think people run too much timing. If these heads and pistons are so much more efficient and all the analysis done on the combustion chamber then it seems like we are loosing power from all this timing. I don't have any evidence to back this up though since I don't have a dyno available.

E85 is another story since I can't find much scientific literature on the subject. Looking at the factory tunes for the flex fuel engines makes it even more confusing since some of the tunes for different engines don't seem to agree.
These cars command 24 degrees stock...often 22 is all you get from the overly sensitive knock sensors. Guys like Pray that have several bolt-on cars running 10.7's @ 127mph have done their homework. I am running 24-25 on 93 and 28-30degrees on E85 because it was recommended by him. If it wasn't for the proper tuning I would probably only see 22 on pump and 26 on E from the overly sensitive knock sensors. I do my own tuning but I also paid for a reference tune to learn off of, so I had an idea where to start. Your in for a long road with no reference to learn from because not many out there are sharing info on the Gen5 engines. Knowledge comes at a cost on these platforms.
__________________
2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP
Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP
Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA
KingLT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2018, 12:45 PM   #12
6spdhyperblue


 
Drives: 6th gen
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: US
Posts: 3,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
These cars command 24 degrees stock...often 22 is all you get from the overly sensitive knock sensors. Guys like Pray that have several bolt-on cars running 10.7's @ 127mph have done their homework. I am running 24-25 on 93 and 28-30degrees on E85 because it was recommended by him. If it wasn't for the proper tuning I would probably only see 22 on pump and 26 on E from the overly sensitive knock sensors. I do my own tuning but I also paid for a reference tune to learn off of, so I had an idea where to start. Your in for a long road with no reference to learn from because not many out there are sharing info on the Gen5 engines. Knowledge comes at a cost on these platforms.
+1 King with the solid advice. The base tunes from these guys is def worth it
__________________
‘22 2SS 1LE M6 Summit White - RF, Flexfuel, LT2 intake, 95mm tb, ATI udp, VT ramair, full 28” dragpack - 11.68@122
‘16 1SS M6 LT2 intake + boltons on DR 11.0@126+ (Sold)

Last edited by 6spdhyperblue; 10-16-2018 at 01:05 PM.
6spdhyperblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2018, 01:37 PM   #13
danhr
BAMF SS
 
danhr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1SS A8
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ford City, PA
Posts: 3,023
Send a message via AIM to danhr
On the dyno, my car stopped making hp @ 26* of timing on e85. Took it to the track and added timing AMD adjusted fuel until it stopped gaining mph.... ended up around 31* before it stopped, fwiw
__________________
2016 1SS A8: FBO + Circle D + P1X + Meth + Tuned by Pray Performance

Stock Longblock

800 SAE rwhp. 9.4 @ 145 mph.
danhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2018, 09:18 AM   #14
Joel2702zzz
 
Drives: My Dad's car is a '16 1SS 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Menifee CA
Posts: 76
Update: logged the car yesterday, it made a maximum of 477 hp at 6000 or so and that was with 19.5*. did not get a single degree of retard all the way to 6700 because timing up there was set at 26-28*, weird thing is other runs have made more power above 6000 with lower timing (20-22*) but also had 6-8* of knock retard. And also shouldn't the car want more timing at 4000-6000 rpm?
Joel2702zzz is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.