03-11-2019, 10:39 PM | #183 | |
Dances With Mustangs
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Sales are more than just an "indicator"; they are the reason why a model, model line, or even an entire division exists or not. If sales aren't enough to keep a production line running, lay-offs begin to happen and if it continues, entire plants are shut down. That's not just a threat; it's happening right now. The problem with going down the path GM went for the 6th gen, is it's a dwindling path. The manufacturing model for the Camaro is for WAY more than a couple thousand unit sales a month. It isn't set up for low production volumes. The Corvette is which is why they can continue to produce them profitably. Unless they want to change their production model (which is entirely possible) the way things are right now indicates they're in trouble with the Camaro. The only reason it began to sell last year when they had 4 months of inventory sitting on the lots, was they started offering big discounts. How do they reconcile that? How do they keep making a car that doesn't sell unless they offer deep discounts? Either they lower the price to those levels to begin with and re-engineer it so they can sell it at those points and be profitable, or come up with a style and look so desirable, that the people who can spend the higher amounts decide to buy. That market is out there, they just aren't buying the Camaro. They're buying BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. Did you know that the Mazda Vision wasn't merely an empty show car shell? It was a fully functional car. Production ready? No, but I wouldn't under-estimate Mazda. While GM and Ford have been obsessed with SUV's and trucks the past few years, the Asian manufacturers have quietly been moving in and taking over the territory that GM and Ford used to own; passenger cars. The Asian offerings are getting better and better, and the designs and styles are improving too. The ONLY thing still in favor of American cars, and performance cars in particular, is the V8. It's been their ace-in-the-hole for over half a century, but the new turbo technology in 4's and 6's is getting remarkably good. I have a 2017 turbo 4 Alfa Romeo Giulia and it's surprising how good it is. The Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio with its Ferrari-derived turbo 6 is a stunner. Small displacement turbo engines aren't supposed to perform like that; but they do now. The V8 is starting to have some real competition. Chevy can keep the Camaro as a track car, but they really should take another look at a model for the street without all the expensive track features. If they don't, the Camaro will become just another niche car that sells 2,500 a month; a 4 seat Corvette basically. Not that that's a bad thing, but it isn't what the Camaro was originally intended to be.
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03-12-2019, 12:16 AM | #184 |
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Autonomous cars and the rental economy are a product of unending greed of the generation in power, not the generation too poor to afford owning anything.
Both aspects of the general direction cars are going right now are primarily coming to be because the tech has caught up to the desire to ensure people have to subscribe to cars and to retain control over that property to better control the flow of those subscriptions. There is no point in being anti-ev though. Electric motors are massively more efficient and easier to maintain that ice engines. Tying that to self driving and the non existent middle class is where things go wrong. It's a fast track to no human drivers and no personal ownership... Meaning no control over your own ability to travel. All that to say,. Embrace the new... There is good potential there and it is more viable than being constrained by big bulky internal combustion engines. Keep it 6th gen, reduce waistline by not needing a tall engine, open up the trunk, remove the rear seats, make the factory drive train underpowered and cheap. The aftermarket will make it popular to those who can now afford it. Basically, to sell more, they need to make it perform as bad as it did in to 80's, but with the potential to be built like it is now. And yes, it needs to ditch the 6 liter engine. Maybe a 4 liter v8 would still fit, eventually to be replaced by a crazy electric. Last edited by cellsafemode; 03-12-2019 at 12:32 AM. |
03-12-2019, 03:26 AM | #185 |
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Doc, do yourself a favor and don't try to argue with the haters. I really like your work. I think it pretty much fits your idea of a basic simple pony car, not a high performance car that looks like a pissed off transformers. As you know I was sceptical at first, but you really improved greatly which each update.
I actually don't get why the mods are not going after the trolls. They really ruin the fun for the people that actually deliver content to the forum
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03-12-2019, 09:41 AM | #186 |
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To me, that's a modern-day re-interpretation of the "surface excitement" design style that a generation or so ago also tended to be "overdone". Mainly on cars of Japanese origin, so it's looking like a case of "the more things change, the more they stay the same".
The feeling that ↑↑↑ gives me is that the designer ran out of fresh ideas and went to the "outrageous for the sake of outrageousness" well. I don't think even Chris Bangle with his flame-surfacing would have come up with that, and even that's gone past its "sell-by" date. Norm
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03-12-2019, 04:50 PM | #187 | |
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Last edited by Gen6_1Le; 03-12-2019 at 07:36 PM. |
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03-12-2019, 04:58 PM | #188 | |
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03-12-2019, 05:16 PM | #189 | |
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Last edited by Gen6_1Le; 03-12-2019 at 07:35 PM. |
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03-12-2019, 09:57 PM | #190 | |
Drives: 2017 RS Garnet Red Tintcoat A8 Join Date: Oct 2017
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03-12-2019, 09:57 PM | #191 | |
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As far as your comment on a even smaller version, going to a 2 seater and having a hatch.. They are already building that.... It's called a Corvette.
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2011 Camaro 2SS 2004 Corvette CE SOLD Last edited by Memphis SS; 03-12-2019 at 10:42 PM. |
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03-12-2019, 10:35 PM | #192 | |
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That being said thanks for posting your version but, I'm not a fan. Looks like as some have said "an 80s Monte Carlo." As far as what the Camaro was built for.. Well it was built to be a less expensive version of the Corvette and compete with the other pony cars. It was from the start built to have a track purpose as part of design. Just check out the ad below. I think that kind of says it all. Price for a 1967 Camaro base was around $2,572 inflation calculator $20,000.00 today dollars Actual Real staring price $25,000.00 So really the pricing is not far off based on inflation and adding in all the standard technology
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03-12-2019, 11:37 PM | #193 | |
Dances With Mustangs
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Adjusted for inflation in today's dollar value it would be $18,663. Just for comparison, here's what the Corvette cost in 1967 ($4,240) and in today's dollars it would be $32,088.93 which was very expensive back then. That was more than a house cost. Here's something interesting. Don't you find it interesting that in your mind, my design reminds you of an '80s Monte Carlo, when in fact they're nothing alike? Apparently people don't read what I write because they keep protesting something that's not what I'm saying. I want GM to ADD a new pony car; not replace the Camaro with my concept. I recognize that today's technology makes cars better than it was even possible to make in 1967, so adjusting for that, I'm proposing a NEW entry-level pony car at a starting price of $24,990. Turbo 4, basic safety features. Rear-wheel drive. Upgrades can include a turbo 6, upgraded interior. MAYBE an RS option, but primarily it would be a sporty consumer passenger car. If it caught on and people wanted more, that could be added in the following model years.
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03-13-2019, 12:00 AM | #194 |
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I bought a new '84 Monte Carlo SS, (Dark blue metallic with blue velour bucket interior), and I loved it. Plenty of room for 5, a strong high output 305, and rear wheel drive. They were very popular here in the South and sold really well, really reminded me of a 68 - 72 Chevelle in many ways. They were built in a Texas GM plant and guess why they were dropped. Wanted more capacity to build more pickups.
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03-13-2019, 12:38 AM | #195 |
Drives: multiple cars Join Date: Oct 2017
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Hi Doc, I really enjoy your efforts at fleshing out a pony car return. You wrote you've been keeping an eye on concept cars. Do you mind sharing your thoughts on these (only one a concept):
https://www.motor1.com/news/39038/19...-as-bumblebee/ -The Benz picture with it's wheel wells made this come to mind. http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/...-a-ct5-v-mule/ -Just wondering how much of this related to any new Camaro. https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/im...ew-ev-concept/ -Curious for your opinion. |
03-13-2019, 01:04 AM | #196 | |
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If this is not a Camaro concept as you claim but a new model it would help there bud if you didn't put a Camaro plate on the front of your rendering, I think that would cut down everyone's confusion As far as today's cost vs 1967 Camaro base model you also have to factor in the technology to cost. The old cars didn't have the safety features or AC, power windows, power locks, radio, power steering, tilt, CC and lot more that is all standard now.. Also the 1967 and 1968 were the same model, I'm not sure what you were referring to there unless you were talking trim levels being added each year like they still do today.
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2017 Camaro 2SS Hyper Blue
2011 Camaro 2SS 2004 Corvette CE SOLD Last edited by Memphis SS; 03-13-2019 at 06:29 AM. |
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