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Old 01-15-2025, 11:08 AM   #239
jlaudio11
 
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Damn, congrats! Now that you have fuel system, how far will the blower/engine combo go? I'm not as familiar with the whipple's power potential or your bottom end setup. With port and potential to turn it up you're going to flying this year!
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Old 01-15-2025, 04:30 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaudio11 View Post
Damn, congrats! Now that you have fuel system, how far will the blower/engine combo go? I'm not as familiar with the whipple's power potential or your bottom end setup. With port and potential to turn it up you're going to flying this year!
So the Whipple 3.0 should max out similar to the Maggie 2650 but at a slightly slower blower speed, I’d guess. But we really don’t know, someone needs to push one to the max. I’m not working the blower hard at my level.

The Whipple has more left in it than my shortblock does lol… I’m on GPI lower compression drop-in pistons and rods. GPI said they could take a pounding and they weren’t kidding! But I’m probably already asking my shortblock for too much, I wasn’t planning on turning up the power a bunch. I’m sick of mixing fuel and I need more octane IMO. So that’s the main driver of this move.
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Old 01-17-2025, 10:41 AM   #241
radz28
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Mike is the BOMB. He's helped me A LOT, and I couldn't appreciate him more. He's awesome.

The thing I don't like a lot is how tight DSX controls (apparently) their ATLAS. I think I remember you stating you keep in the loop, including calibrating. I won't suggest I'm an expert or anything, and have spoken directly with DSX on some stuff, but there's a lot they hold to their chest. I don't know if it's because it's so early in the release, but if anyone has curiosity (like I do) about how stuff is working in the background (not that I could, necessarily, understand it anyways), it's a little tough to let go of some control of the tuning part. I'd never try to give the impression I should/would/do have competence in calibrating. I'm just saying that it seems they have a lot of restrictions that have to align with the product right now.

Having said that - I would make clear that I have every confidence in the product. I wouldn't suggest it won't do the job excellent. I like that it uses the same architecture as GM does. There is sense in keeping tight control over all of it, including the kinds of injectors you can use (from a calibration standpoint, especially). With what I HAVE used, from DSX, I have every confidence it's going to be great for you (not that you needed mine/more approval) because those guys do everything great. A billet fuel pump module bucket?! LOL. That's awesome!

Are you going to see how far you can push the short block, or upgrade eventually? Wouldn't the biggest concern be the thrust bearing be the biggest issue for the likely power your combination could make? It seems like you're already past what more than a few say an LT4 is safe to, lol. I haven't noticed many push too much past your power without aftermarket reciprocating parts.

I really have to work on cleaning up my engine bay closer to your standard. Yours makes me envious and motivates me to work harder at it. Many KUDOS friend!!!
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Old 01-17-2025, 03:20 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Mike is the BOMB. He's helped me A LOT, and I couldn't appreciate him more. He's awesome.

The thing I don't like a lot is how tight DSX controls (apparently) their ATLAS. I think I remember you stating you keep in the loop, including calibrating. I won't suggest I'm an expert or anything, and have spoken directly with DSX on some stuff, but there's a lot they hold to their chest. I don't know if it's because it's so early in the release, but if anyone has curiosity (like I do) about how stuff is working in the background (not that I could, necessarily, understand it anyways), it's a little tough to let go of some control of the tuning part. I'd never try to give the impression I should/would/do have competence in calibrating. I'm just saying that it seems they have a lot of restrictions that have to align with the product right now.

Having said that - I would make clear that I have every confidence in the product. I wouldn't suggest it won't do the job excellent. I like that it uses the same architecture as GM does. There is sense in keeping tight control over all of it, including the kinds of injectors you can use (from a calibration standpoint, especially). With what I HAVE used, from DSX, I have every confidence it's going to be great for you (not that you needed mine/more approval) because those guys do everything great. A billet fuel pump module bucket?! LOL. That's awesome!

Are you going to see how far you can push the short block, or upgrade eventually? Wouldn't the biggest concern be the thrust bearing be the biggest issue for the likely power your combination could make? It seems like you're already past what more than a few say an LT4 is safe to, lol. I haven't noticed many push too much past your power without aftermarket reciprocating parts.

I really have to work on cleaning up my engine bay closer to your standard. Yours makes me envious and motivates me to work harder at it. Many KUDOS friend!!!
Thanks as always, Rad! I figured I needed to beef up the fueling no matter what anyway, so might as well check that box. I’m sick of mixing and wanted more octane anyway. Plus, if I do build a crazy motor I’d need more fueling to take advantage anyway.

I haven’t fully decided to run the Atlas but was leaning that way. I love the TooHighPSI guys and their products but do not like the idea of hacking up the torque model to use the Reflex. Sounds like a good number of people, including you, have used the Reflex with no problems.
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Old 01-17-2025, 05:26 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshinator99 View Post
Thanks as always, Rad! I figured I needed to beef up the fueling no matter what anyway, so might as well check that box. I’m sick of mixing and wanted more octane anyway. Plus, if I do build a crazy motor I’d need more fueling to take advantage anyway.

I haven’t fully decided to run the Atlas but was leaning that way. I love the TooHighPSI guys and their products but do not like the idea of hacking up the torque model to use the Reflex. Sounds like a good number of people, including you, have used the Reflex with no problems.
Toohighpsi has a firmware that operates similarly to the atlas in the beta stage. You do not have to hack the airflow model to make it work. I am not running it but others out there have used it, like I said it's in the beta stages as they work it out. I'm sharing this as a something to keep in mind if you're comparing the two and depending on how soon you plan to jump on port injection.
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1.39 3.88 5.89@122.52 9.08@153.85
'94 Camaro Z28 6mt cc306 cam, 4:10's, longtubes with x pipe, otr intake
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Old 01-17-2025, 06:46 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaudio11 View Post
Toohighpsi has a firmware that operates similarly to the atlas in the beta stage. You do not have to hack the airflow model to make it work. I am not running it but others out there have used it, like I said it's in the beta stages as they work it out. I'm sharing this as a something to keep in mind if you're comparing the two and depending on how soon you plan to jump on port injection.
Yeah this isn’t an emergency lol, the car is apart as always for the winter. So I’ll catch up with Mike Sitar before pulling the trigger and get a real time update from him first. Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2025, 09:24 AM   #245
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You don't drive it enough for mixing ethanol to be a problem...first world problems . I do agree that you are at a power level where more E is beneficial. Curious why you are considering the THP vs DSX?

I read a complaint yesterday where it read like the DSX is locked to 180 EOI for target activation. Meaning you can't adjust when it activates. It's going to come on soon as EOI drops below 180 so you can't really max DI, even though some claim that is max. I agree that is where efficiency peaks, but I haven't seen any negative effects spraying 20 degrees past that. Car doesn't seem to slow down any. I am just a hack so pay me no attention. Either way I don't really see it being an issue. Yeah, you might be down a little horsepower vs being able to max DI...big deal. Maybe if you class raced and needed every last HP.
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Old 01-21-2025, 09:41 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
You don't drive it enough for mixing ethanol to be a problem...first world problems . I do agree that you are at a power level where more E is beneficial. Curious why you are considering the THP vs DSX?

I read a complaint yesterday where it read like the DSX is locked to 180 EOI for target activation. Meaning you can't adjust when it activates. It's going to come on soon as EOI drops below 180 so you can't really max DI, even though some claim that is max. I agree that is where efficiency peaks, but I haven't seen any negative effects spraying 20 degrees past that. Car doesn't seem to slow down any. I am just a hack so pay me no attention. Either way I don't really see it being an issue. Yeah, you might be down a little horsepower vs being able to max DI...big deal. Maybe if you class raced and needed every last HP.
There’s a ton that DSX is holding close to the vest so we really don’t know what we don’t know at this point. The THP does seem to keep evolving and can currently do more (boost by gear, Smoothboost integration, etc) so while I’ll probably end up DSX, I just want to do a little more homework before pulling the trigger.

Meanwhile I carefully popped the bricks out of the lid and am bringing those off to my buddy’s shop for ultrasonic cleaning. My runners are packed up and getting shipped out to Katech today too.
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Old 01-22-2025, 09:48 AM   #247
radz28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
You don't drive it enough for mixing ethanol to be a problem...first world problems . I do agree that you are at a power level where more E is beneficial. Curious why you are considering the THP vs DSX?

I read a complaint yesterday where it read like the DSX is locked to 180 EOI for target activation. Meaning you can't adjust when it activates. It's going to come on soon as EOI drops below 180 so you can't really max DI, even though some claim that is max. I agree that is where efficiency peaks, but I haven't seen any negative effects spraying 20 degrees past that. Car doesn't seem to slow down any. I am just a hack so pay me no attention. Either way I don't really see it being an issue. Yeah, you might be down a little horsepower vs being able to max DI...big deal. Maybe if you class raced and needed every last HP.
I think I recall Dave saying you CAN adjust EOI, and he provides some data showing some effects of changing it. I think, optimally (very generally speaking), 180* was the best balance for power, but I think I read someone say there's a balance you'll want to look for that's combination-specific. I think he added you might need to play with it for optimization in one of his later blogs:

September 16th blog:
"... So... what's actually triggering the controller? I suspect this is where a lot of people are going to throw a fit due to being fixed in their old ways. If you examine the log and pay attention to injection duration, you'll see it caps out at 180°. This value is user adjustable (and has been since tuning became available), and through a lot of testing on our end (and abuse of our poor test car), we found 180° was the middle value of the bell curve in terms of power production. When applying the patch, this value will default to 180°. Ultimately, you can change it to whatever you want, and you may actually need to based on cam specs..."

Maybe I recall incorrectly, but I think he (or someone near his level) said you'd want to adjust that to keep IPW at a good limit by RPM, so if you were looking to keep IPWs around 5ms at 6500, you might want to move EOI limits around to until you found that IPW. I don't know if you have to work with him to set that (like adding the patch), or if that's something you can do independently (which is what I feel like he said you could do). My point is, he's left some pretty good information in those blogs. They are very interesting, and some of it goes against the grain of what, it seems like, a lot of tuners have been doing for a long time for the Gen Vs.

He leaves a lot of juicy little tidbits when he wants to, lol.
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Old 01-22-2025, 10:07 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshinator99 View Post
There’s a ton that DSX is holding close to the vest so we really don’t know what we don’t know at this point. The THP does seem to keep evolving and can currently do more (boost by gear, Smoothboost integration, etc) so while I’ll probably end up DSX, I just want to do a little more homework before pulling the trigger.

Meanwhile I carefully popped the bricks out of the lid and am bringing those off to my buddy’s shop for ultrasonic cleaning. My runners are packed up and getting shipped out to Katech today too.
Mike is constantly evolving the product. MOTIV is constantly evolving, too. They have a PRO version coming out soon that will have even more capability, including BT and app' stuff they haven't even released information about yet (which they said they would have a full release this month). It's going to be an upgrade to the REFLEX PLUS (and have the same connector), and have additional inputs and outputs through an additional connector. Mike's Smoothboost seems pretty dang cool, too. And, even though you don't need it, on account of the low-side you already have, the PLUS has aux' pump control, and seems to work great (so far as my meager skills go). I can ramp it in so I don't get a huge pressure spike and it was relatively easy to augment into the car. The other thing is (along the lines of your point above), IMHO, I just prefer the transparency (and, I'm sure there are many justifiable reasons I can appreciate, too). I don't, necessarily, have to rely on waiting to hear back from him and have more ability to problem solve, if necessary (as much as I have the ability to). He's just never done, and constantly improving his products. Maybe it doesn't matter to some/most, but while I can appreciate the black magic of the ATLAS, and the OEM way (it is my understanding) it seems to work, the OEM way is almost black magic, in a way, too. According to Dave, the VTT isn't even completely accessible through HPT (for example), so torque models aren't even correct (outside of OEM cals'), so you can't even calibrate everything correctly, like OEM. So, to me, is the black magic an upsell if you can't really calibrate completely? It sounds good, for sure, and probably works as good as the aftermarket can possibly make it, too. Who knows? The integration, considering who was working on the project, probably couldn't be better. I guess that will be proven when units start coming out on the road.

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Old 01-24-2025, 09:34 PM   #249
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Well said on both posts @Radz28!

After watching my buddy nuke his NGK 6510s (and his forged pistons lol) in his Coyote at our last track day, I decided to go with a plug better designed for forced induction applications and a colder heat range. So I ordered up a set (plus a spare, of course).
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