A10 vs m6 on track

pbsinternet1le · 03-03-2022, 06:54 AM

Can you guys tracking the a10 offer some comparison with the m6. I find the m6 gears to be very long and in the ss1le 5th is pretty useless ..at vir fir example it slows significantly from 4-5 then slowly creeps back up.. how does the a 10 react mid corner? Corner exit?

cdrptrks · 03-03-2022, 11:26 AM

I have the M6 but know someone who has tracked both M6 and A10 SS 1LEs and he said that the A10 shifts are so smooth that they don't upset the car midcorner.

But on the M6 I have found a lap time advantage when comparing PDR data by short shifting into 4th before entering two different corners with apex speeds in the 80-90 mph range which allows me to corner a bit faster without oversteering when driving with traction/stability control fully disabled. I can imagine that trying to use the paddle shifters to accomplish the same thing in an A10 would be difficult due to the number of shifts needed per lap in manual mode and the lap time impact of accidentally hitting the rev limiter.

1lE_1LE · 03-03-2022, 12:53 PM

I didn’t like how the a10 downshifted, and worry like most auto trans that get beat on its just gonna get rough if you own it for a long time. Upshifts are great and I agree with the other comment on being super smooth.

That being said, still bought the m6.

cdrptrks · 03-03-2022, 01:48 PM

Also I read that the A10 will run hotter when tracking in hot summer weather compared to the M6.

6spdhyperblue · 03-03-2022, 02:00 PM

Are you really hitting the rev limiter at the top of fourth?

Yes the 5th is really setup more as a OD on the SS.
The 10spd doesn’t have that flat spot at that speed

pbsinternet1le · 03-03-2022, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Are you really hitting the rev limiter at the top of fourth?

Yes the 5th is really setup more as a OD on the SS.
The 10spd doesn’t have that flat spot at that speed

Yes, at Road Atlanta and VIR.. VIR it's pretty bad 4th to 5th. My car is cammed as well..590hp.. it's like hitting a wall at 145mph though and often I find the gear spacing is really long..3,4,5

cdrptrks · 03-03-2022, 06:37 PM

Yes 5th gear on the M6 is too long for the SS 1LE's HP level. I try to wait until 140 or 141mph to shift into it but would prefer a shorter gear ratio for it...not sure if one is available. But then auto rev matching would not work correctly without tuning (if those parameters can be changed with a tune).

JSH · 03-03-2022, 06:54 PM

A10 is faster, around Nürburgring for example, and probably every other track

PJS57 · 03-03-2022, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Yes 5th gear on the M6 is too long for the SS 1LE's HP level. I try to wait until 140 or 141mph to shift into it but would prefer a shorter gear ratio for it...not sure if one is available. But then auto rev matching would not work correctly without tuning (if those parameters can be changed with a tune).

The ZL1 has a closer ratio TR6060 than the SS - a 0.82 5th vs the 0.74 5th in the SS. It would probably be a better box for the track than the one in the SS but like you say I'm not sure how just swapping one in would work with the auto rev match. I don't know enough about the tuning to know if that's something that can change easily.

TWG1 · 03-03-2022, 09:35 PM

Had both. Tracked both. First a ZL1 A10, then a ZLE M6.

The A10 is faster; no question. It is also remarkable in its ability to find the right gear 95% of the time.

It also runs much hotter- the whole car; not just trans temps. Oil, water, trans all run hotter. I suspect diff as well since it shares a cooling circuit with the trans, but theres no guage to verify. My oil temps were regularly 290+ on the A10.

For a high-use track car, I prefer the M6 for 2 reasons:
1. Heat; as mentioned. My A10 would eat cats. Went through 4 in 1yr of tracking it. Also, when the trans gets over ~240, shifting gets really wonky, even before it codes. I fully overheated it twice to the point of a black flag for smoke. (Aug & Oct at Barber & Road ATL)
It runs hotter if its overfilled. And getting the level right is tough, because its really hard to get it to 220* to check the level on the street.
2. Maintenance. Changing the fluid every 15hrs is a lot. And as mentioned, its a PITA and the dealers do a crap job of setting the level.

The A10 also gets 1mpg less on the track if you care. I could get it down below 3.5mpg for a 20 min session. My ZLE M6 is usually better than 4.5mpg. My two theories: it runs higher avg RPM, and it runs richer the hotter it gets to cool itself down.

I still marvel at the A10. Such an awesome piece of tech. But a converter trans still has drawbacks on track, even in 2022.

RUQWIKR · 03-04-2022, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Yes 5th gear on the M6 is too long for the SS 1LE's HP level. I try to wait until 140 or 141mph to shift into it but would prefer a shorter gear ratio for it...not sure if one is available. But then auto rev matching would not work correctly without tuning (if those parameters can be changed with a tune).

If I ever nuke my MM6 in my 17 SS 1LE, I'd put the MG9 from an ATS-V in. 1st through 4th are same ratios, but, 5th & 6th go from 0.74 / 0.50 to 0.80 / 0.63. Higher torque rating too on the MG9 at 565 vs. 500 ft-lb. Would be a nice trans with head / cam which is the plan for my 17 anyways.

pbsinternet1le · 03-04-2022, 06:13 AM

I haven't seen or heard a slew of bad news about the tremec dct in the c8.. haven't really been searching but man i wish that was an option.

khcoaching · 03-04-2022, 06:19 AM

I've run both and much of the above is spot on. I can't comment too much on the temps, as they weren't my cars, but the owners mentioned that heat was an issue.

- Much better acceleration once the drive was started.
- RPM range (gear selection) was much tighter.
- Less brain space needed. (Except on entries)
- Entries were a bit of an issue at pace. Delayed downshifts and the blip (at times) was not timed correctly leading to some inconsistent entries and more movement on the entry that I would cared for.
- The really shined a light on how poor the stock LT1 accelerates between 4th and 5th gear. Ouch.
- I would love to have the .74 5th gear in my car!

Ken

AZIROC · 03-04-2022, 04:26 PM

I still consider myself "new" to the track stuff (did my 5th one and 6th is in 2 weeks) and I have an A10. I find the A10 amazing (obviously in performance mode). Even on the downshift into a turn, there isn't any squirrely stuff going on in the back and it holds the RPMS up pretty high.

03-03-2022, 06:54 AM	#1
pbsinternet1le Drives: 2017 1le current /2015 2ss 1le sold Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Whitesburg Ga 30185 Posts: 759	A10 vs m6 on track Can you guys tracking the a10 offer some comparison with the m6. I find the m6 gears to be very long and in the ss1le 5th is pretty useless ..at vir fir example it slows significantly from 4-5 then slowly creeps back up.. how does the a 10 react mid corner? Corner exit? __________________ 2017 1LE Hyper Blue

03-03-2022, 02:00 PM	#5
6spdhyperblue Drives: 6th gen Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: US Posts: 3,670	Are you really hitting the rev limiter at the top of fourth? Yes the 5th is really setup more as a OD on the SS. The 10spd doesn’t have that flat spot at that speed __________________ ‘22 2SS 1LE M6 Summit White - RF, Flexfuel, LT2 intake, 95mm tb, ATI udp, VT ramair, full 28” dragpack - 11.68@122 ‘16 1SS M6 LT2 intake + boltons on DR 11.0@126+ (Sold)

03-03-2022, 06:54 PM	#8
JSH Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Mile High Posts: 3,556	A10 is faster, around Nürburgring for example, and probably every other track __________________ '20 ZL1 1LE A10, OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.

03-03-2022, 09:35 PM	#10
TWG1 TWG1 Drives: 2019 Camaro ZLE Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: PENSACOLA, FL Posts: 179	Had both. Tracked both. First a ZL1 A10, then a ZLE M6. The A10 is faster; no question. It is also remarkable in its ability to find the right gear 95% of the time. It also runs much hotter- the whole car; not just trans temps. Oil, water, trans all run hotter. I suspect diff as well since it shares a cooling circuit with the trans, but theres no guage to verify. My oil temps were regularly 290+ on the A10. For a high-use track car, I prefer the M6 for 2 reasons: 1. Heat; as mentioned. My A10 would eat cats. Went through 4 in 1yr of tracking it. Also, when the trans gets over ~240, shifting gets really wonky, even before it codes. I fully overheated it twice to the point of a black flag for smoke. (Aug & Oct at Barber & Road ATL) It runs hotter if its overfilled. And getting the level right is tough, because its really hard to get it to 220* to check the level on the street. 2. Maintenance. Changing the fluid every 15hrs is a lot. And as mentioned, its a PITA and the dealers do a crap job of setting the level. The A10 also gets 1mpg less on the track if you care. I could get it down below 3.5mpg for a 20 min session. My ZLE M6 is usually better than 4.5mpg. My two theories: it runs higher avg RPM, and it runs richer the hotter it gets to cool itself down. I still marvel at the A10. Such an awesome piece of tech. But a converter trans still has drawbacks on track, even in 2022. __________________ 2019 ZLE M6 2019 ZL1 A10 (Sold) 1967 Jaguar XKE Series 1 Roadster 2021 F150 Powerboost (on order)

03-04-2022, 06:13 AM	#12
pbsinternet1le Drives: 2017 1le current /2015 2ss 1le sold Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Whitesburg Ga 30185 Posts: 759	I haven't seen or heard a slew of bad news about the tremec dct in the c8.. haven't really been searching but man i wish that was an option. __________________ 2017 1LE Hyper Blue

03-03-2022, 11:26 AM	#2
cdrptrks Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 960	I have the M6 but know someone who has tracked both M6 and A10 SS 1LEs and he said that the A10 shifts are so smooth that they don't upset the car midcorner. But on the M6 I have found a lap time advantage when comparing PDR data by short shifting into 4th before entering two different corners with apex speeds in the 80-90 mph range which allows me to corner a bit faster without oversteering when driving with traction/stability control fully disabled. I can imagine that trying to use the paddle shifters to accomplish the same thing in an A10 would be difficult due to the number of shifts needed per lap in manual mode and the lap time impact of accidentally hitting the rev limiter.

03-03-2022, 12:53 PM	#3
1lE_1LE Drives: '21 M6 1SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Chicago / St. Louis Posts: 64	I didn’t like how the a10 downshifted, and worry like most auto trans that get beat on its just gonna get rough if you own it for a long time. Upshifts are great and I agree with the other comment on being super smooth. That being said, still bought the m6.

03-03-2022, 01:48 PM	#4
cdrptrks Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 960	Also I read that the A10 will run hotter when tracking in hot summer weather compared to the M6.

03-03-2022, 06:37 PM	#7
cdrptrks Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 960	Yes 5th gear on the M6 is too long for the SS 1LE's HP level. I try to wait until 140 or 141mph to shift into it but would prefer a shorter gear ratio for it...not sure if one is available. But then auto rev matching would not work correctly without tuning (if those parameters can be changed with a tune).

03-04-2022, 06:19 AM	#13
khcoaching Drives: 2021 1SS 1LE Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: 98548 Posts: 610	I've run both and much of the above is spot on. I can't comment too much on the temps, as they weren't my cars, but the owners mentioned that heat was an issue. - Much better acceleration once the drive was started. - RPM range (gear selection) was much tighter. - Less brain space needed. (Except on entries) - Entries were a bit of an issue at pace. Delayed downshifts and the blip (at times) was not timed correctly leading to some inconsistent entries and more movement on the entry that I would cared for. - The really shined a light on how poor the stock LT1 accelerates between 4th and 5th gear. Ouch. - I would love to have the .74 5th gear in my car! Ken

03-04-2022, 04:26 PM	#14
AZIROC Drives: '86 IROC-Z '18 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Arizona Posts: 731	I still consider myself "new" to the track stuff (did my 5th one and 6th is in 2 weeks) and I have an A10. I find the A10 amazing (obviously in performance mode). Even on the downshift into a turn, there isn't any squirrely stuff going on in the back and it holds the RPMS up pretty high.

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