06-17-2020, 05:36 PM | #15 |
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I think some visualizations should help.
Ford Gen 1 Coyote cutaway: GM LT1 cutaway: You will see that Coyote has four valves for each cylinder and 2 camshafts above each cylinder bank, while the LT1 has two valves for each cylinder and only 1 camshaft in the valley of the V. In general, engines are either optimized for high-end or low-end torque/power. An engine that excels at high-end power will have to sacrifice some low-end power and vice versa. The others have already covered the specifics, so in general, Coyote will have better high-end performance due to being able to rev higher, while LT1 is more focused on giving you low-end torque on the go. The LT1 is said to be capable of 300+ lb-ft at 1000 RPM. This graph should give you an idea of how a pushrod engine(LS7) and a DOHC engine(5.2 Voodoo) delivers the power. Notice that they have similar peak HP figures, but the LS7 gives you more torque down low and that benefits the low-end power. This is also why the peak HP numbers can be deceiving. In reality, torque curve is a much more important figure to look at and paints a better image of the engine performance. On another note, because of the low-end torque small blocks are capable of, you don't have to rev them as high when daily driving and they can be geared to rev very slowly on highways, which results in slightly better fuel economy when you compare Camaro SS's EPA test figures to Mustang GT's. BTW, HP per litre is pretty useless as others have said, especially with this in mind: If specific output is everything, buy a 2-stroke and Wankel rotary, which make even 4-stroke DOHC engine's specific output look absolutely stupid.
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06-18-2020, 03:20 AM | #16 |
Makis
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Great thread!
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06-18-2020, 04:42 AM | #17 |
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06-19-2020, 03:35 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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06-19-2020, 03:53 PM | #19 | |
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That said, I believe that despite their size differences, are not the LS/LT engines and the Coyote very similar in weight? Also, the LS appears to be a physically taller engine as well from that pic, by several inches.
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06-19-2020, 04:31 PM | #20 | |
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I think the reason why Coyote swaps are not as dominant is because of the width, which you can kinda see in these photos. In terms of engine packaging, I would think width is a much bigger headache to deal with than height. There are a few ways to make the engine shorter in height such as adding a dry-sump oil system(so you don't need a deep oil pan), while I can't really think of ways to make an engine narrower easily. 86 comes with Flat-4 engines, which probably means a Coyote's extra width isn't a huge issue. On cars with I4 engines stock, I can imagine the swap needing more work and in some cases, impossible. I believe I looked up the weight before and yep, weight is similar between an LT1 and a Coyote.
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06-19-2020, 05:16 PM | #21 | |
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No matter how narrow the GM small block is, it was always a pain to swap headers on my LT1 Trans Am back in the day. I got pretty good at it after 3 times, though. Small dia. shorties to Jet Hot LTs w/out cat to large dia. SLP shorties w/ hi-flow cat.
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06-20-2020, 09:45 AM | #22 | |
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While there are some discrepancies in the numbers you'll see from different sources for dimensions of these engine if you dig deep you'll find that the coyote is both taller and longer than the lt1/ls though not by much. The biggest and most substantial dimensional difference is in width. The dohc heads are obviously much bulkier and are the biggest contributor to the size difference. The heigh differences you mention in the picture is a little misleading because you actually can't see the lowest point of the 5.0s oil pan due to the way and what it's being rested on. Take a closer look. The lt1's and ls's also have some slight dimensional differences between each other, as well as having dry sump and wet sump versions which affect the height of the engine and add more variables to dimensions listed. Throw in truck engines and their tall manifolds as well as different points measured by different sources and there's a lot of numbers out there. How they're measured also affects some different coyote stats you'll see as well. Weight wise they are pretty similar, both seem to be in the mid 400s . Also hard to get an accurate comparison since they may not be wearing the same amount of accessories.
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06-20-2020, 03:29 PM | #23 | |
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But yes, the Coyote is significantly wider than the GM small block due to the large heads. I guess that's the nature of the different engine type.
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06-21-2020, 02:40 PM | #24 |
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Yes, but even for FI engines, it's a pretty useless metric too, because it will just tell you which engine has more boost. It would be a useful metric if you could compare at the same boost level though...
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06-22-2020, 10:36 AM | #25 | |
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Unless you have to pay road tax based on displacement or idle a lot, HP per displacement is pretty useless. Sent from toaster or something
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06-22-2020, 12:33 PM | #26 |
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Bingo. Horsepower for weight would be more meaningful. Barring limits on displacement due to regulatory or taxation reasons, where they exist, if extra displacement comes at no cost to added weight ( and/or added bulk ) then whatever displacement increase available is all gravy. All that matters is power and it's ability to accelerate a vehicle: For it's size, a carpenter ant is many more times stronger than me, but there's no doubt I'll prevail in a one-on-one contest against it.
Another thing many seem to overlook is total available power and torque, and not just at the peak, but the area under the curve as well. Last edited by HighIron; 06-22-2020 at 03:23 PM. |
06-22-2020, 12:57 PM | #27 | |
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Quote:
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06-22-2020, 03:22 PM | #28 | |
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I screwed up: I meant "carpenter ant'. Just edited my post above. 'Carpenter ant'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_ant One of those things carrying a wooden matchstick would be like one of us carrying a telephone pole. |
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