[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I gotta disagree with ya. Indeed, "anybody" can frig with settings and spend inordinate amounts of time in the paddock vs enjoying themselves out on track. Seen it many times. Or change settings to mask insufficient skill especially on corner entries. Etc.

Shock setting is a complex art, one that requires high degree of driving skill to define what the car is doing well vs not in each phase of a corner, moreover differentiated into slow and fast corners. If a driver cant tell this, then any set up change is just a game of guessing. Moreover, one needs to understand what will actually happen when changing bump or rebound rates at each car's corner vs just turning knobs and hoping for the better not undrerstanding causes and effects.

Trying extremes and then - likely - landing on a happy medium, will - likely - brings one back to a good factory setting, more or less. So what's the point?

With 2 way adjustable shocks one already has several possible permutations of settings available. Add adjustable sways to the equation and the number of choices jumps up. Add multi adjustable shocks and the picture really gets complex.

Pro crew chiefs have written books on this subject and for a very good reason. Lastly, buying an adjustable suspension and leaving it static regardless of track venue, conditions and other variables is pointless imo.
Thats exactly the same end result as having a fixed suspension.

As far as camber, Provoste runs scrubs and i dont think his camber is overly excessive. My memory tells me it is less than 3F but i may be incorrect here. I ran slicks with 2.6F on my Vette with zero issues. But thats a different platform obviously and it also depends on width of tires.

Isnt it fun being an arm chair expert? Lol! Cant wait for the spring! Best of luck with your new project. It is clear that you are knowledgeable and capable - so enjoy it and have fun with a new toy!
All the best!

Sure, to get the MOST out of them (of course no pro team runs something as silly as a 2 way damper ) you need a LOT of time and you are changing spring rates and damping for every track and every condition.

We are talking more DE level guys here though where 90% is going to be good enough and it's not that hard to do if you understand how to do it.

I'm certainly not suggesting someone easily figures out a 4 way damper while changing spring rates, tire compounds, etc in a few sessions. A buddy does that for Indy and they have a shock dyno in their rig, tons of sensors that they can run during practice, etc. In those cases, I agree with you. But improving upon MRC with mid range(4-5k) dampers is certainly possible for track day enthusiasts who invest the time to learn suspension tuning.

Your first timer buying some 3 way MCS dampers and just "playing with settings" will never get there. It takes time to learn it first.. after that it's fairly rinse and repeat.

As for changing it per track that again depends on how serious you are. I don't bother because I'm also not going to change springs rates like a real race team would. I'm there to have fun so that 90% range again is good enough for my DE car. I have been there, I've had multiple springs that I tested at different tracks to find the ideal setup for each.. but quite frankly I just don't care to anymore.

I think sometimes we just go too far in thinking the MRC setup is magical and it's super hard to improve upon. Having said that I have no plans to change mine out because the 1LE is just a fun toy I take to the track sometimes. It's not my race car and it's not my primary DE car. Heck, it'll be third or forth in line to be with me at the track now. It's PLENTY good enough stock for what I need it to do.

Although I still kind of want a ZL1 or ZLE

My camber comments were specifically about the SC3R. Different tires like different settings. To evenly use the regular SC3 -2.6 isn't enough in my experience. From the (edit: 1) ZLE guy I've talked to -3 is not enough for the 3Rs. I haven't run them because the one 1LE guy I talked to that did destroyed his fronts in 1 day with -2.5. Well destroyed the front outer edge, the rest of the tire was still great of course.

[TrackClub]

Dave, now that you have put it this way: i fully agree with ya! Id only add one extra thought:

I do believe MRC is a big trick suspension which suits a dual purpose car like no other. Track setting is mighty capable, while touring is nice for long drives to and from. Elsd is calibrated accordingly and so is PTM.
That said, for a hard core folk there clearly are ways to improve on it should they wish to move towards more of a race car vs a street track car. But for a vast majority of us, major pace improvements will come with more skill and stickier tires - guaranteed and with zero risk of possibly messing up an already highly capable set up. That was my key point i suppose. Cheers!

[TrackClub]

I have 2.6F on my 1le and the wear is just fine with G3s.
When i ran slightly wider RE71R the inside wear was s bit of an issue on inside front. So all in all it works for me.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Dave, now that you have put it this way: i fully agree with ya! Id only add one extra thought:

I do believe MRC is a big trick suspension which suits a dual purpose car like no other. Track setting is mighty capable, while touring is nice for long drives to and from. Elsd is calibrated accordingly and so is PTM.
That said, for a hard core folk there clearly are ways to improve on it should they wish to move towards more of a race car vs a street track car. But for a vast majority of us, major pace improvements will come with more skill and stickier tires - guaranteed and with zero risk of possibly messing up an already highly capable set up. That was my key point i suppose. Cheers!

I agree with those points

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I have 2.6F on my 1le and the wear is just fine with G3s.
When i ran slightly wider RE71R the inside wear was s bit of an issue on inside front. So all in all it works for me.

Interesting. Most of my time in the 1LE is at Sebring (generally if it's farther than that I just tow something instead) which is a bit hard on tires but both of my fronts have significantly more wear on the outside edges. The RF started to cord before I swapped over to my fresh set that I brought with me.

Now if I was less lazy and would swap them on the wheels I could get a lot more life out of them The other 1LE guys at Sebring have similar wear issues. Well the ones running 2:26s or so are anyways.. I'm sure the guys running mid 2:30s aren't having as much wear

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I agree with those points



Interesting. Most of my time in the 1LE is at Sebring (generally if it's farther than that I just tow something instead) which is a bit hard on tires but both of my fronts have significantly more wear on the outside edges. The RF started to cord before I swapped over to my fresh set that I brought with me.

Now if I was less lazy and would swap them on the wheels I could get a lot more life out of them The other 1LE guys at Sebring have similar wear issues. Well the ones running 2:26s or so are anyways.. I'm sure the guys running mid 2:30s aren't having as much wear

Well mine have more wear on the outside as well but frankly i dont see any more camber prolonging their life beyond the regular 6+ days or so, as i dont like to drive on slicks on public roads anyway I just swap wheels L with R half way or so, to even out the wear between inside vs outside tires. I dont flip them (and wouldnt want to anyway).

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I have 2.6F on my 1le and the wear is just fine with G3s.
When i ran slightly wider RE71R the inside wear was s bit of an issue on inside front. So all in all it works for me.

This is because Goodyear designed the F1 SC3 tires with more tread depth on the inner side to combat wearing it out with a lot of negative camber.

While the RE71r I believe have the same tread depth across the entire tire.

Pretty genius of Goodyear if you ask me.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

This is because Goodyear designed the F1 SC3 tires with more tread depth on the inner side to combat wearing it out with a lot of negative camber.

While the RE71r I believe have the same tread depth across the entire tire.

Pretty genius of Goodyear if you ask me.

You're absolutely correct and wide contact patches on the outside is another reason i dont flip them on a wheel.
Besides it costs extra ans makes little sense to me...

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Nothing demonstrates this very point as well as a real life example. Thanks Provoste

OP: I posted another response last night, but later decided to delete it, as i had started repeating myself (perhaps old age lol?).

Bottom line, it is clear from your responses that you get the jist of the matter and then some! It is always a pleasure to converse with other open minds - so to this end - thank you!

Cheers!

I like the truth and I like to learn, what can I say?
I really appreciate all the info you guys are all giving, makes things a lot easier than trial and error.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Provoste

Bingo. I had a similar conversation with my student at Barber last month. My student and his friends were all driving C7 Z06's in the intermediate group with Chin. My student was on the OE Pilot Super Sports, and 2 of his friends were on Pirelli slicks.

I was lapping 2-3 seconds a lap faster in the SS 1LE on 200 tread street tires than his C7Z buddies on slicks. I think that data point convinced him to keep his car stock for now, plenty to learn still.

Yeah that's a great example for sure, not really surprised to be honest

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

They need more front camber unless you want to DESTROY the fronts in ~1-2 days from what I've seen. This makes sense as they should want more camber than the SC3's and at -2.6 front I still don't have enough camber for those.. I bet the SC3R's likely want -3.5 or so..

Yup, my research from other forum members told me that too, definitely looking at camber plates in the future, was hoping for something that could allow for a quick camber change since I drive this car on the street, however I may just have to settle for paying the track to change my alignment before and after every race when I switch to full R compound tires.

I've heard guys can get up to 3 track days out of the SC3R's if they flip them side to side.

Your thoughts?

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Contact http://gttrackdays.com for sizes and pricing. Those guys seem very popular and are quick to respond etc. They also have 1st hand experience as they track their cars.

Pirelli DH (dry, hard) compound seems most favoured as it is fast yet durable. Those guys have a good reputation albeit sometimes you can get a dud as part of shippment. The issue is they dont deliver to Canada. But if you are close to the border: that solves it logistics wise if you can pick it up at the US address. It helps if you had an opp to buy a few sets at once and have some in reserve when needed.

You could also try new Hoosiers and see how they last (vs G3R).

Note neither choice is street legal and absolutely suicidal in wet conditions. So you'll either have to carry a set of rims inside your car, or trailer your beast.

Cheers!

Approx. How many tracks days (assuming 4 to 5 twenty minute sessions) do you think a DH Pirelli scrub with about 75% life left would last?

Also I assume these tires would need a lot of negative camber (more than -3) like the SC3R and R7’s do in order to not cord prematurely on the inside or outside edge?

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Approx. How many tracks days (assuming 4 to 5 twenty minute sessions) do you think a DH Pirelli scrub with about 75% life left would last?

Also I assume these tires would need a lot of negative camber (more than -3) like the SC3R and R7’s do in order to not cord prematurely on the inside or outside edge?

I used to get about 7-8 days out of BFG R comp slicks on my Vette with 2.6 camber. And i never corded one
If you want to maximize longevity (and cost) go with a square set up a la Provoste. If my memory serves me right he runs 285s 18s all around without camber plates but with a strut mod. This permits him to move wheels F to R. Otherwise Todd always recommends getting 2 sets of fronts to a set of rears for a staggered set up. I am pretty sure Provoste's camber doesnt exceed 3 and he drives his car to/from long distances. His info is in one of the threads but i cannot find it now. Hopefully he will chime in here with details. Otherwise just PM him.

PS dont be afraid to skinny the size of skicks a bit. They are stupid fast regardless

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Approx. How many tracks days (assuming 4 to 5 twenty minute sessions) do you think a DH Pirelli scrub with about 75% life left would last?

Also I assume these tires would need a lot of negative camber (more than -3) like the SC3R and R7’s do in order to not cord prematurely on the inside or outside edge?

I can usually get two weekends (4-6 days on track) out of a set of used PZero DH Slicks. I run -3.0 camber front and -1.7 rear. 285/645 square, being able to rotate corner to corner is why they can last more than 3 days.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Provoste

I can usually get two weekends (4-6 days on track) out of a set of used PZero DH Slicks. I run -3.0 camber front and -1.7 rear. 285/645 square, being able to rotate corner to corner is why they can last more than 3 days.

That's great to know I can keep a somewhat streetable camber set up and have those slicks last 4 to 6 track days still. A square set up definitely makes sense for sure.

You use Pirelli DH slicks so I assume that would be your recommendation over other options?

I see GTTrackDays.com has 19" Pirelli slicks, any reason not to go with 19" wheels except less selection of slicks?
He doesn't list inventory so I'm not sure if the size/spec list is referring to Pirelli DH slicks or another type of slick.
Was thinking of going with 305/690/19 that have a 27" diameter. Does the 690 stand for the side wall height?