[18ss376]

Originally Posted by Soleil

Before I start writing for hours just watch a few movies.
https://youtu.be/Tbja6B79-rM

Excellent video!
Great info for beginners, but like me I drag race my car & run a catch can now. To make this even better, I wish someone would make a vacuum pump which is better than a CC especially for racing. A vacuum pump is also worth h.p. & making your engine stay cleaner & last longer.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by fullpower

Are you a lawyer or do you just play one on TV?

Not a lawyer. Just a guy who was responsible for GM’s powertrain service operations, including understanding warranty policy, from 1997 - 2001.

And just for the sake of clarity, a dealership could and in many cases would overlook the installation of a catch can because they’d just as soon get paid for the warranty work. But if a dealer said “this has to be a customer pay because the customer installed a catch can” GM would side with the dealer and note on the vehicle record that the owner modified the engine.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by fullpower

Ok so your responses to any questions I have would show bias for GM no matter what the law says.

Obviously this is not the place to go to find unbiased facts under the law.

There are opinions and there are facts. My opinions can be biased just like anyone else’s. When it comes to law, there are facts. When it comes to warranty language, there are facts. I cannot own my own set of facts. I can only relay the facts that are in front of me. Beyond facts, the only “opinions” that count are the ones coming from the folks wearing the black robes.

In terms of GM’s powertrain warranties, they clearly state that GM can deny warranty coverage based on owner modification of the powertrain including, and not restricted to, installation of non-GM parts or parts not authorized or certified by GM. That is a fact. Catch cans are non-GM parts not certified by GM. That’s a fact. There is a reason I mentioned the GM Accessories CAI and tune vs third party CAI and tune. No difference in product intent or operation. One is explicitly covered under warranty by GM. One is not because it doesn’t meet the terms spelled out in the GM warranty. Very cut and dried. Catch cans fall in the same category as the third party CAI plus tune. Some dealers will let that go because they are fine with getting paid for the warranty work and because the presence of the catch can is not reported back to GM since there is no tune involved.

[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by fullpower

Ok so your responses to any questions I have would show bias for GM no matter what the law says.

Obviously this is not the place to go to find unbiased facts under the law.

I don't see any bias towards GM here. I don't know the specific laws that apply, so for the sake of argument, let's say you're right about the law. So if a car company refuses warranty work due to your modifications to the car, what are you prepared to do? Hire a lawyer, sue them and take them to court? You would need to also hire a professional engineer specializing in automotive modifications to present your case that your specific modifications did not have a negative impact on the car. How much time effort and money are you prepared to put into this? Sorry, but regardless of the law, if a car company states that they can refuse warranty work if you make modifications, it looks like they have the upper hand whether it's fair or not, regardless of whether you like it or not.

[Whocares05050]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

This is almost exactly what I was told by the Chief Engineer for the Small Block V8 (includes LT1 and LT4). He stopped short of saying it would cause damage, but did say it would void my warranty and that there were much better ways to spend my money. I asked him about it before I bought my 2017 LT1 Vert as I approached my retirement from GM.

Originally Posted by avalonandl

Catch cans are not needed...... Thats one side of the argument.

They are great at catching moisture/condensation.... not good for your motor....

I am convinced this forum is full of idiots...

"Not good for your motor"

"Could cause damage"


Its a f*cking oil seperator, not a 300 shot of nitrous. Gooooood lord some of you need help.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

I am convinced this forum is full of idiots...

"Not good for your motor"

"Could cause damage"

Its a f*cking oil seperator, not a 300 shot of nitrous. Gooooood lord some of you need help.

Catch cans have the potential to prevent your crank case ventilation from functioning properly. The ventilation removes combustion blow by gases that will condense back to gasoline in your crank case oil. Elevated crank case pressure can also blow seals.

[Warrior102]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

I am convinced this forum is full of idiots...

"Not good for your motor"

"Could cause damage"


Its a f*cking oil seperator, not a 300 shot of nitrous. Gooooood lord some of you need help.

Every forum is full of idiots across the spectrum, people feel the need to chime in when they have no idea WTF they're talking about, makes it a real shit show when trying to search out info as you have to filter out 70% of the crap posted. As far as moisture in your CC that was condensation that forms in your cold engine when it warms up, that was headed to your intake manifold anyway and is normal in colder weather. OP get a JLT can and your intake valves will thank you, most dealers wouldn't even notice or give a rats ass and if you're worried it takes maybe 15 minutes to remove.

[Whocares05050]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Catch cans have the potential to prevent your crank case ventilation from functioning properly. The ventilation removes combustion blow by gases that will condense back to gasoline in your crank case oil. Elevated crank case pressure can also blow seals.

Yeah and intakes have the potential to throw off metered air, exhaust systems mess with emmisions, etc etc. Unless you are keeping a vehicle bone stock, there is always potential for issue.

If catch cans had all the "potential" issues you are afraid of, why isnt there hundreds of threads stating warranty claims denied on ruined motors accross the thousand different car forums?

Why is it catch cans or more popular than ever and yet not a single thread about a blown motor due to it?

There is only ONE thing auto makers care about and that is getting you to your end of warranty ASAP so they can rake you over the coals. I am worried about my car at 200k miles and GM isnt. Keep that oil in there 10k+ miles. Dont do that trans fluid. Keep that rear diff fluid. Screw it! Beause accelerated wear equals a larger payday. A catch can is preventative maint. In my mind. And if crank pressure was such an issue why is literally EVERY race car and speed shop using them as well?

I had a catch can on all my vehicles from 2005 till today. Never an issue. Ever. I had a JLT on my 2011 5.0 mustang for 50k miles before selling. After dealing with carbon buildup from DI and valve coking i will NEVER not run one again.

[mdhopt36]

"... that GM can deny warranty coverage based on owner modification of the powertrain including, and not restricted to, installation of non-GM parts or parts not authorized or certified by GM. That is a fact. Catch cans are non-GM parts not certified by GM. That’s a fact...."

*******

There, fullpower, spelled out for you.
Lots of mfr's are the same way.
Only an idiot would question CREDENTIALS of a poster with this statement, look it up for yourself. The owner's manual likely has it somewhere.
As far as I see it, you owe an apology.

But if you wanna go ahead and have your way, don't pout if warranty work blows up in your face because of a catch-can.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by fullpower

There still has to be a reason it voids the warranty. It’s illegal for any car company to arbitrarily void a factory warranty without proving the modifications directly cause any issues.

The law you’re saying makes it illegal only covers replacement parts. GM can’t void your warranty if you decide to use a Wix oil filter instead of the OEM AC Delco PF64. They have to prove the Wix filter caused the problem.

Adding a supercharger, turbocharger, and even a catch can can and has voided powertrain warranties since its a modification and not replacement parts.

[Soleil]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

Yeah and intakes have the potential to throw off metered air, exhaust systems mess with emmisions, etc etc. Unless you are keeping a vehicle bone stock, there is always potential for issue.

If catch cans had all the "potential" issues you are afraid of, why isnt there hundreds of threads stating warranty claims denied on ruined motors accross the thousand different car forums?

Why is it catch cans or more popular than ever and yet not a single thread about a blown motor due to it?

There is only ONE thing auto makers care about and that is getting you to your end of warranty ASAP so they can rake you over the coals. I am worried about my car at 200k miles and GM isnt. Keep that oil in there 10k+ miles. Dont do that trans fluid. Keep that rear diff fluid. Screw it! Beause accelerated wear equals a larger payday. A catch can is preventative maint. In my mind. And if crank pressure was such an issue why is literally EVERY race car and speed shop using them as well?

I had a catch can on all my vehicles from 2005 till today. Never an issue. Ever. I had a JLT on my 2011 5.0 mustang for 50k miles before selling. After dealing with carbon buildup from DI and valve coking i will NEVER not run one again.

1+ You nailed it.
Apart from the warranty @all just think of the following. Why adding people a tower brace ? Is the performance so bad?
Why adding people lowering springs or even other suspension kits?
Why changing people to lighter rims.
All this is not necessary but it improves the performance or increase the stability.
Why didn’t GM did all that? Simply because it cost too much.
The catch can filters the blow by gases which goes into the intake again. It’s not necessary but it helps to run the engine for more than just 100k miles. By than you are out of warranty and GM gives a sh...if you had a CC or not.

[VinnAY]

After having one on my Mustang GT for 3 years and seeing what come's out of that at regular oil changes I do think it's *smarter* to run a catch can. the point about warranty and that alone is easily removed in 5 minutes time. More to that point, there's really not one of you playing the warranty card that isn't doing something to that car. My apologies if you're bone stock and never touch the thing but let's be real...that's not why you're "here".

In the end...built-in by GM very convenient excuse to walk away from the car when they feel like it. Citing M-M act is a very slippery uphill clime to enforce it on GM; $$$$

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

Yeah and intakes have the potential to throw off metered air, exhaust systems mess with emmisions, etc etc. Unless you are keeping a vehicle bone stock, there is always potential for issue.

If catch cans had all the "potential" issues you are afraid of, why isnt there hundreds of threads stating warranty claims denied on ruined motors accross the thousand different car forums?

Why is it catch cans or more popular than ever and yet not a single thread about a blown motor due to it?

There is only ONE thing auto makers care about and that is getting you to your end of warranty ASAP so they can rake you over the coals. I am worried about my car at 200k miles and GM isnt. Keep that oil in there 10k+ miles. Dont do that trans fluid. Keep that rear diff fluid. Screw it! Beause accelerated wear equals a larger payday. A catch can is preventative maint. In my mind. And if crank pressure was such an issue why is literally EVERY race car and speed shop using them as well?

I had a catch can on all my vehicles from 2005 till today. Never an issue. Ever. I had a JLT on my 2011 5.0 mustang for 50k miles before selling. After dealing with carbon buildup from DI and valve coking i will NEVER not run one again.

You and I had this discussion before (below).

You are free to run a catch can but GM doesn’t warranty them because they haven’t tested them and therefore can’t guarantee they won’t cause harm. Like this example provided.

For me, a catch can isn’t worth the risk. It’s may car so it gets driven every day.

My opinion is based on this LT1 experience (below) and that I daily drove a LS1 for 11-1/2 years without one. No issues.

Catch cans have the potential to prevent your crank case ventilation from functioning properly.

New price... I’ll take $40 plus shipping

[Whocares05050]

Originally Posted by mdhopt36

"... that GM can deny warranty coverage based on owner modification of the powertrain including, and not restricted to, installation of non-GM parts or parts not authorized or certified by GM. That is a fact. Catch cans are non-GM parts not certified by GM. That’s a fact...."

*******

There, fullpower, spelled out for you.
Lots of mfr's are the same way.
Only an idiot would question CREDENTIALS of a poster with this statement, look it up for yourself. The owner's manual likely has it somewhere.
As far as I see it, you owe an apology.

But if you wanna go ahead and have your way, don't pout if warranty work blows up in your face because of a catch-can.

GM has the riggt to deny warranty work for ANY reason. You axt like a catch can is somehow its own category and treated differently from any other modification.

My service manager at my dealer made a comment about my CC when i brought it in last week telling me i was smart toi stall one with all the DI issues he has seen.

Just like others mods it will also depend on your dealer and how mod friendly they are. My local ford and bmw dealer will warranty aftermarket tunes and performance mods and supercharger unstalls etc. As long as you pay them to do the install...

So please, save some air and hop off your high and mighty platform. It literally takes 3 minutes to remove the CC if I felt like it.