Best bang for buck PD supercharger? - Page 2

wnta1ss · 10-31-2020, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajs16400

So you can run a magnuson 2300 (states 6psi on website) with a lt4 low pressure pump, high pressure pump and injectors on e85 and still not max it out?

Probably not. The example that KingLT1 was referencing from ADM Performance was done with the smaller 1740 blower (slowed down from Z06 spec), not a 2300. Quite possible that the bigger 2300 blower with it's base 98mm pulley takes more to run (crank drag) than that slowed-down 1740 did, which means that more fuel would need to be burned.

KingLT1 · 10-31-2020, 08:37 AM

The difference in parasitic pumping loss between the 1.74 and 2300 is minimal...especially at 6psi. Aside from that if Ted Jenetty was able to run E60 @ 9psi with a Whipple 2.9, then I am pretty sure you could turn it down to 5-6psi and run 17% more ethanol being most pump E85 is actually E77. I also have done quite a bit of experimenting with different ethanol percentages and boost levels on my car so I have seen first hand how much fueling demand changes when adding boost or reducing Ethanol percentage. And even if for some reason the OP came up short on being able to run full pump E85, then it's really easy to mix. 70/30 ratio usually nets E60 and it would still make more power then running 7-8psi on 93 octane.

ramairroughneck · 10-31-2020, 09:18 AM

LT4 is the cheapest, has the best power band in the range you seek, and is the lightest

gtfoxy · 10-31-2020, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The difference in parasitic pumping loss between the 1.74 and 2300 is minimal...especially at 6psi. Aside from that if Ted Jenetty was able to run E60 @ 9psi with a Whipple 2.9, then I am pretty sure you could turn it down to 5-6psi and run 17% more ethanol being most pump E85 is actually E77. I also have done quite a bit of experimenting with different ethanol percentages and boost levels on my car so I have seen first hand how much fueling demand changes when adding boost or reducing Ethanol percentage. And even if for some reason the OP came up short on being able to run full pump E85, then it's really easy to mix. 70/30 ratio usually nets E60 and it would still make more power then running 7-8psi on 93 octane.

Do all states switch to ~E70 winter blend or is that just us northern states?

KingLT1 · 10-31-2020, 12:38 PM

Not sure but I think it's mostly the snow belt region.

laynlo15 · 11-01-2020, 07:06 AM

My stations will probably go down to about E50 this winter in Missouri so I'll switch over to 93 so I can drive it all winter when the weather is good. You really don't want to have a full tank of E and leave it set a long time as alcohol is hard on everything it touches.
The biggest problem with the Lt4 is heat soak, it maybe the cheapest but by for not even close to the best. That's why so many Zl1 and Z06 guys get rid of them.

Ajs16400 · 11-01-2020, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laynlo15

My stations will probably go down to about E50 this winter in Missouri so I'll switch over to 93 so I can drive it all winter when the weather is good. You really don't want to have a full tank of E and leave it set a long time as alcohol is hard on everything it touches.
The biggest problem with the Lt4 is heat soak, it maybe the cheapest but by for not even close to the best. That's why so many Zl1 and Z06 guys get rid of them.

With that said isnt to much heat in the cylinders the main cause of failure to the lt1 piston rings?

KingLT1 · 11-01-2020, 08:00 AM

I don't believe heat soak would be a issue with the LT4 when turned down. Keep in mind the LT1 makes more power per lb of boost then a LT4 because it has a 1.5 point higher compression. So it will make the same power as as LT4 on 6-7psi vs the 9-10psi. The Caveat is you have to use a lot more octane to maintain that advantage once you get above 600whp or so because the LT1 runs into a octane wall on 93 pump at about 8-9psi.

I do agree tho I would start with a larger supercharger if going through all the effort of installing one. I seen some used 2300's for 5k which isn't a bad deal. However if the OP is truly content on staying under 600whp then the LT4 supercharger turned down to 5-7psi on E60-E85 would perform really well. None of the larger superchargers really hold any advantage at these lower boost levels. I prefer to run more timing and octane with less boost. Only add more boost if you can still maintain MBT timing.

laynlo15 · 11-01-2020, 08:17 AM

I met a guy at the track yesterday with a stock zl1 and Roto Fab and he was going to do a 2650 Maggie this winter and that was his biggest complaint, heat soak and his was bone stock. He had considered a ported Lt4 and they make good power but you can't change the cooling issues it has. I would agree it won't be as bad with lower boost but it will still be there when you push it hard.

JANNETTYRACING · 11-01-2020, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The difference in parasitic pumping loss between the 1.74 and 2300 is minimal...especially at 6psi. Aside from that if Ted Jannetty was able to run E60 @ 9psi with a Whipple 2.9, then I am pretty sure you could turn it down to 5-6psi and run 17% more ethanol being most pump E85 is actually E77. I also have done quite a bit of experimenting with different ethanol percentages and boost levels on my car so I have seen first hand how much fueling demand changes when adding boost or reducing Ethanol percentage. And even if for some reason the OP came up short on being able to run full pump E85, then it's really easy to mix. 70/30 ratio usually nets E60 and it would still make more power then running 7-8psi on 93 octane.

A lot of info in this thread so I just want it to be clear that was With an LT4 fuel System, not LT1 fuel system.

KingLT1 · 11-01-2020, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

With an LT4 fuel System, not LT1 fuel system.

That is what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

No that is the LT1 fuel system. ADM performance documented a few years that you can run e85 with the LT4 fuel system up to 6psi of boost on a otherwise stock LT1 engine. The Ted Jenetty also documented that you can run up to 9psi on E60 with the LT4 fuel system on a LT1. The LT4 engines can get up to E70 or so at stock boost(9-10psi) because the LT4 cam has a larger fuel lobe to drive the high side pump.

JANNETTYRACING · 11-01-2020, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

That is what I said.

I see that, I just didn't want that detail to get lost in the thread.

KingLT1 · 11-01-2020, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I see that, I just didn't want that detail to get lost in the thread.

Juiced1 · 11-06-2020, 08:50 AM

The LT4 swap will be your cheapest route and as you've read above you can make solid power with it. If you don't love the idea of tossing a LT4 blower on we can get some amazing deals on Whipple and Magnuson

10-31-2020, 08:37 AM	#16
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,798	The difference in parasitic pumping loss between the 1.74 and 2300 is minimal...especially at 6psi. Aside from that if Ted Jenetty was able to run E60 @ 9psi with a Whipple 2.9, then I am pretty sure you could turn it down to 5-6psi and run 17% more ethanol being most pump E85 is actually E77. I also have done quite a bit of experimenting with different ethanol percentages and boost levels on my car so I have seen first hand how much fueling demand changes when adding boost or reducing Ethanol percentage. And even if for some reason the OP came up short on being able to run full pump E85, then it's really easy to mix. 70/30 ratio usually nets E60 and it would still make more power then running 7-8psi on 93 octane. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA Last edited by KingLT1; 10-31-2020 at 08:52 AM.

10-31-2020, 12:38 PM	#19
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,798	Not sure but I think it's mostly the snow belt region. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

11-01-2020, 07:06 AM	#20
laynlo15 Drives: 2022 Lt1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: clark, mo Posts: 8,860	My stations will probably go down to about E50 this winter in Missouri so I'll switch over to 93 so I can drive it all winter when the weather is good. You really don't want to have a full tank of E and leave it set a long time as alcohol is hard on everything it touches. The biggest problem with the Lt4 is heat soak, it maybe the cheapest but by for not even close to the best. That's why so many Zl1 and Z06 guys get rid of them. __________________ 2022 Lt1 6.2 A10, Maggie 2300, THPSI Port Inj/10 rib, Rotofab, E, Nickey, SCOL, Griptech, RC Bandits, Hoosiers/MT 9.80@142.96 1.44 60ft, 6.34@112 707/669 RWHP/TRQ. 16SS Maggie 2650 9.41@147 1.35 60ft, 5.99@119. 16 C7 A8 10.90@128 Bolt on stuff

11-01-2020, 08:00 AM	#22
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,798	I don't believe heat soak would be a issue with the LT4 when turned down. Keep in mind the LT1 makes more power per lb of boost then a LT4 because it has a 1.5 point higher compression. So it will make the same power as as LT4 on 6-7psi vs the 9-10psi. The Caveat is you have to use a lot more octane to maintain that advantage once you get above 600whp or so because the LT1 runs into a octane wall on 93 pump at about 8-9psi. I do agree tho I would start with a larger supercharger if going through all the effort of installing one. I seen some used 2300's for 5k which isn't a bad deal. However if the OP is truly content on staying under 600whp then the LT4 supercharger turned down to 5-7psi on E60-E85 would perform really well. None of the larger superchargers really hold any advantage at these lower boost levels. I prefer to run more timing and octane with less boost. Only add more boost if you can still maintain MBT timing. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

11-01-2020, 08:17 AM	#23
laynlo15 Drives: 2022 Lt1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: clark, mo Posts: 8,860	I met a guy at the track yesterday with a stock zl1 and Roto Fab and he was going to do a 2650 Maggie this winter and that was his biggest complaint, heat soak and his was bone stock. He had considered a ported Lt4 and they make good power but you can't change the cooling issues it has. I would agree it won't be as bad with lower boost but it will still be there when you push it hard. __________________ 2022 Lt1 6.2 A10, Maggie 2300, THPSI Port Inj/10 rib, Rotofab, E, Nickey, SCOL, Griptech, RC Bandits, Hoosiers/MT 9.80@142.96 1.44 60ft, 6.34@112 707/669 RWHP/TRQ. 16SS Maggie 2650 9.41@147 1.35 60ft, 5.99@119. 16 C7 A8 10.90@128 Bolt on stuff

10-31-2020, 09:18 AM	#17
ramairroughneck Drives: 2018 Camaro SS Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 239	LT4 is the cheapest, has the best power band in the range you seek, and is the lightest

11-06-2020, 08:50 AM	#28
Juiced1 Account Suspended Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: St. Charles, IL Posts: 18,663	The LT4 swap will be your cheapest route and as you've read above you can make solid power with it. If you don't love the idea of tossing a LT4 blower on we can get some amazing deals on Whipple and Magnuson

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