wide band afr for logging

wookwook · 07-06-2019, 09:52 PM

just trying to confirm the I4 has the narrow band sensor onboard, and what if any quick and dirty home lab set up have been done, or is something best done with a full kit? like the innovate LM-2 @ $250
TIA.

Dixie ZL1 · 07-06-2019, 10:11 PM

Highly recommend the AEM OBD wideband.

StPeteHyper2.0 · 07-06-2019, 10:23 PM

We have a factory wideband you can tap into with obd reader.. and torque app or something.

I use Prosport gauges, 2 years installed now. I had and extra bung welded into the downpipe and used Prosport's AFR kit.

AEM is a great option also. Those are only 2 I would recommend.

Dixie ZL1 · 07-06-2019, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StPeteHyper2.0

We have a factory wideband you can tap into with obd reader.. and torque app or something.

I use Prosport gauges, 2 years installed now. I had and extra bung welded into the downpipe and used Prosport's AFR kit.

AEM is a great option also. Those are only 2 I would recommend.

You’re fortunate to have a WB on the I4.... the LT4 does not so the only option for accurate tuning is to add one.

wookwook · 07-08-2019, 08:49 AM

is there an optimal placement for the bung? closer to the cat,, midway to the header? etc.. anywhere it will fit the sensor ?, as I think about it for a sec.

How does an aftermarket tuner measure afr on a catted engine? comp tables or somesuch?

StPeteHyper2.0 · 07-08-2019, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wookwook

is there an optimal placement for the bung? closer to the cat,, midway to the header? etc.. anywhere it will fit the sensor ?, as I think about it for a sec.

How does an aftermarket tuner measure afr on a catted engine? comp tables or somesuch?

I have a catted downpipe. I installed the third O2 just before the cat. The AFR is measured at the 1st O2 sensor before the cat. I'm not 100% sure, just my belief from everything I've seen. While it was in.. I marked it where it would be clear of issues.

wookwook · 07-09-2019, 04:51 AM

Thanks StPete, going to all that trouble of removing it was't really necessary, LOL. OK so between the last post I did a lot of reading on post and pre cat O2 on the resultant lamba product. Also I've done "almost complete" HP Academy (correction) series with Andre Simon's lecture which is immensely informative. For the most part, my conclusion is that for our puposess we are tuning for wot which means a couple things, 1 car is in open loop and 2 a catted dp is not really going to distort the o2, or AFR portion of the measurement at wot if you use a tailpipe hookup., because the gas throughput is greater than the chemical process can handle, so to say cats work optimally at cruise. As to 1, while in closed loop all the sensors are driving the engine via the virtual tables and the engine basically on auto pilot, but tuning in the VE range is not something a street machein with factory ecu we are going to influence, or need to monitor greatly while in closed loop or "cruise mode".

Open to more informative comments, please.

StPeteHyper2.0 · 07-09-2019, 07:52 PM

I'd like to learn more about HPtuner also. I'll look into that

wookwook · 07-09-2019, 08:42 PM

https://www.hpacademy.com/

another tool for the tool box. knowledge base.

I poked around for a few days before buying and there should be a pop up for a sale, its like $350 lifetime access to hundreds of webinars, but there is a progressive series of lessons culminating in step by step, and a remote real time lab offered too.

in the fwiw section, i am reading a how 2 by a regarded author and his method is almost 180 from hp academy. brain hurts.

cooper1965 · 07-09-2019, 09:46 PM

Those courses are very good for general tuning. What you will find is things start to get very confusing jumping between platforms. Some things are universal, other are not. If you want to get very specific with tuning your camaro, your going to need the gen5 book from HPT, and most likely the gen 4 book as well, also the maf ve tuning guide just to cover the basic torque modeled pcm stuff. It still won't be enough though, you'll also need to research Virtual volumetrics gen5, and virtual torque as those areas are vaguely touched apon in literatures. Our pcm uses a blend of ve and maf, unless that is altered in the tune.

wookwook · 07-10-2019, 05:20 AM

Cool. Thanks for that. It is a pretty difficult puzzle so I'm hooked. Yeah I figured the trail will stop at hptumers. It will take a bit to digest it so far. Sizing up the field of info on my first pass.

StPeteHyper2.0 · 07-10-2019, 02:01 PM

Sounds mind blowing for a starter.. I'd definitely have to put a lot of time aside to start learning from scratch. Thanks for the info

wookwook · 07-10-2019, 03:04 PM

Like Cooper said your obliged to have to wade through the variations many general configurations to just get the right nuggets so its strenuous that way. If someone where to just filter the specific ltg ecu, not the trans, you could possibly put your arms around the main concepts in an evenings worth of study. Not counting the applying of the theory though, its like explaining down hill skiing to a novice and stand them on top of a double black diamond trail. I wish I had a shtbox to practice on.

It can make sense once you just accept "hey guess what, the ecu makes a map of educated mathematical best guesses on volumetric efficency of the cylinder and use that to reference the running signals based on air flow, but depending on the load and TPS it may grab qualitative air intake factors from the MAP, watch the shell, did you see it? Yeah thats right find the pea and I'll give you a dollar, wrong guess and you blew an engine....oops you needed that head gasket didn't you?"

wookwook · 07-13-2019, 08:25 AM

so it see that i can log lamda and wideband appears as though just like you said. mine seems to be in there at .82 is just like one would expect during power enrichment. It also seems that the o2 sensor is showing a really thin area for open loop, but i also found the open loop channel signal so i should watch that. fwiw, hp tuners version 2 was modified to log FAR as AFR and uses lamba now. at least that is how i think i read it in the version update notes. i havent looked for phi in here but no matter its just an inverse variablr. So I4 DOES have an onboard WIDE band that works?

07-06-2019, 09:52 PM	#1
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	wide band afr for logging just trying to confirm the I4 has the narrow band sensor onboard, and what if any quick and dirty home lab set up have been done, or is something best done with a full kit? like the innovate LM-2 @ $250 TIA.

07-06-2019, 10:23 PM	#3
StPeteHyper2.0 Drives: '16 Hyper Blue 2.0 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: St Pete Posts: 238 View My Garage	We have a factory wideband you can tap into with obd reader.. and torque app or something. I use Prosport gauges, 2 years installed now. I had and extra bung welded into the downpipe and used Prosport's AFR kit. AEM is a great option also. Those are only 2 I would recommend. Attached Images

07-09-2019, 04:51 AM	#7
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	Thanks StPete, going to all that trouble of removing it was't really necessary, LOL. OK so between the last post I did a lot of reading on post and pre cat O2 on the resultant lamba product. Also I've done "almost complete" HP Academy (correction) series with Andre Simon's lecture which is immensely informative. For the most part, my conclusion is that for our puposess we are tuning for wot which means a couple things, 1 car is in open loop and 2 a catted dp is not really going to distort the o2, or AFR portion of the measurement at wot if you use a tailpipe hookup., because the gas throughput is greater than the chemical process can handle, so to say cats work optimally at cruise. As to 1, while in closed loop all the sensors are driving the engine via the virtual tables and the engine basically on auto pilot, but tuning in the VE range is not something a street machein with factory ecu we are going to influence, or need to monitor greatly while in closed loop or "cruise mode". Open to more informative comments, please. Last edited by wookwook; 07-09-2019 at 10:12 AM.

07-09-2019, 09:46 PM	#10
cooper1965 Coopers Camaro Drives: 18 Flex Fuel LTG Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: St. Louis/Sullivan/Washington MO Posts: 933	Those courses are very good for general tuning. What you will find is things start to get very confusing jumping between platforms. Some things are universal, other are not. If you want to get very specific with tuning your camaro, your going to need the gen5 book from HPT, and most likely the gen 4 book as well, also the maf ve tuning guide just to cover the basic torque modeled pcm stuff. It still won't be enough though, you'll also need to research Virtual volumetrics gen5, and virtual torque as those areas are vaguely touched apon in literatures. Our pcm uses a blend of ve and maf, unless that is altered in the tune. __________________ Flex Fuel tuned by me using HPT-:- ---My Build Thread--- -----My IG PAGe-----

07-06-2019, 10:11 PM	#2
Dixie ZL1 NOXQCES ZL1 Drives: 2017 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 307	Highly recommend the AEM OBD wideband.

07-08-2019, 08:49 AM	#5
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	is there an optimal placement for the bung? closer to the cat,, midway to the header? etc.. anywhere it will fit the sensor ?, as I think about it for a sec. How does an aftermarket tuner measure afr on a catted engine? comp tables or somesuch?

07-09-2019, 07:52 PM	#8
StPeteHyper2.0 Drives: '16 Hyper Blue 2.0 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: St Pete Posts: 238 View My Garage	I'd like to learn more about HPtuner also. I'll look into that

07-09-2019, 08:42 PM	#9
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	https://www.hpacademy.com/ another tool for the tool box. knowledge base. I poked around for a few days before buying and there should be a pop up for a sale, its like $350 lifetime access to hundreds of webinars, but there is a progressive series of lessons culminating in step by step, and a remote real time lab offered too. in the fwiw section, i am reading a how 2 by a regarded author and his method is almost 180 from hp academy. brain hurts.

07-10-2019, 05:20 AM	#11
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	Cool. Thanks for that. It is a pretty difficult puzzle so I'm hooked. Yeah I figured the trail will stop at hptumers. It will take a bit to digest it so far. Sizing up the field of info on my first pass.

07-10-2019, 02:01 PM	#12
StPeteHyper2.0 Drives: '16 Hyper Blue 2.0 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: St Pete Posts: 238 View My Garage	Sounds mind blowing for a starter.. I'd definitely have to put a lot of time aside to start learning from scratch. Thanks for the info

07-10-2019, 03:04 PM	#13
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	Like Cooper said your obliged to have to wade through the variations many general configurations to just get the right nuggets so its strenuous that way. If someone where to just filter the specific ltg ecu, not the trans, you could possibly put your arms around the main concepts in an evenings worth of study. Not counting the applying of the theory though, its like explaining down hill skiing to a novice and stand them on top of a double black diamond trail. I wish I had a shtbox to practice on. It can make sense once you just accept "hey guess what, the ecu makes a map of educated mathematical best guesses on volumetric efficency of the cylinder and use that to reference the running signals based on air flow, but depending on the load and TPS it may grab qualitative air intake factors from the MAP, watch the shell, did you see it? Yeah thats right find the pea and I'll give you a dollar, wrong guess and you blew an engine....oops you needed that head gasket didn't you?"

07-13-2019, 08:25 AM	#14
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	so it see that i can log lamda and wideband appears as though just like you said. mine seems to be in there at .82 is just like one would expect during power enrichment. It also seems that the o2 sensor is showing a really thin area for open loop, but i also found the open loop channel signal so i should watch that. fwiw, hp tuners version 2 was modified to log FAR as AFR and uses lamba now. at least that is how i think i read it in the version update notes. i havent looked for phi in here but no matter its just an inverse variablr. So I4 DOES have an onboard WIDE band that works?

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