Homepage Garage Wiki Register Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > V8 LT1 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


BeckyD @ James Martin Chevy


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-10-2017, 01:19 PM   #1
slick3

 
Drives: Summit White 2017 SS 1LE
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 998
PRAY Ported Heads

Brett was kind enough to let me get the first pair of PRAY PERFORMANCE ported cylinder heads. Im currently in the middle of the install right now. Both ported heads are on the car its just a matter of getting the rest of the mess back together during my busy work week.

Guys, I cant say enough about Bretts work. Not only does he do top flight porting, he has been extremely helpfull with the install and making sure I get it done correctly. Always willing to help and offer advice. I cant wait to see what this car car do in its final form.

The install is not easy if you have never done it before, I wont sugar coat it.

Anyway, results to come after I get it back together and retune it.

I will leave you with a few pictures, although poor quality. Sorry.







slick3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 01:30 PM   #2
BowtieRocket

 
BowtieRocket's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS- M6
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 1,133
Excellent...
__________________
2016 Camaro 2SS M6- Garage
BowtieRocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 02:11 PM   #3
Ryephile
Hot Dog
 
Ryephile's Avatar
 
Drives: '17 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,938
Oooooh really nice! I look forward to reading your impressions for how they feel. Any before/after dyno's by chance?

Are you keeping the stock cam, valves, and springs? Just the porting change?

Thanks!
Ryan
__________________
2017 "M1SS1LE" in Hyper Blue w/PDR
Ryephile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 02:36 PM   #4
slick3

 
Drives: Summit White 2017 SS 1LE
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
Oooooh really nice! I look forward to reading your impressions for how they feel. Any before/after dyno's by chance?

Are you keeping the stock cam, valves, and springs? Just the porting change?

Thanks!
Ryan
I'm keeping stock everything. Just swapping the heads over. I do have some before dynos and I will be getting some afters as soon as I get the car back together and tuned. It's about 107 out today so dumping the car right now wouldn't be a fair comparison either way. Will absolutely post impressions after everything is sorted out.

I want to maintain stock drivability but make more power and this was about the last thing I could do outside of cam the car. I'm really excited to see how it feels. I can tell you that having both heads laying side by side you can see all the areas that Brett worked over, they are SMOOTH compared to the very rough and pourous nature of the stock ones.
slick3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #5
BradfordCamaro
SABIO
 
BradfordCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 CAMARO 1SS
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Bradford, ON
Posts: 5,012
nice...
So that what Heads look like....
__________________



BradfordCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 03:16 PM   #6
slick3

 
Drives: Summit White 2017 SS 1LE
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
nice...
So that what Heads look like....
Sorry, im not a great picture taker and for me to try and get pictures of the porting inside the runners is impossible with an iphone. They are nice.
slick3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 06:09 PM   #7
BradfordCamaro
SABIO
 
BradfordCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 CAMARO 1SS
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Bradford, ON
Posts: 5,012
No,no...
Was not a comment on your photography skills. But I can see why you thought so. It is kinda funny though...
__________________




Last edited by BradfordCamaro; 07-10-2017 at 07:24 PM.
BradfordCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 06:50 PM   #8
PRAY


 
PRAY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
No,no...
Was not a comment on your photography skills. But I can see why you thought so. It is kinda funny though.

My comment is more along the lines that you actually got your heads.
Just to clarify. Bradford is NOT waiting for heads from me.
__________________
2016 2SS. H/C SBE 1.37 60ft, 6.36@109.49, 9.97@136+. Nuff Said.
PRAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 06:54 PM   #9
PRAY


 
PRAY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,765
Nick, glad you are happy so far. It is great that you got the first set. Can't wait for your impressions once you are up and running. I am confident you will be happier than you are now. I appreciate the nice words. You have been an exceptional customer to deal with. Providing help is the easy part. Just glad I could be part of your build.
__________________
2016 2SS. H/C SBE 1.37 60ft, 6.36@109.49, 9.97@136+. Nuff Said.
PRAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 07:24 PM   #10
BradfordCamaro
SABIO
 
BradfordCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 CAMARO 1SS
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Bradford, ON
Posts: 5,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAY View Post
Just to clarify. Bradford is NOT waiting for heads from me.
Sorry...
Didn't mean to mess up this thread. I'll go now

Yes. Pray Performance. Solid parts. Great guy.
__________________



BradfordCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 07:58 PM   #11
PRAY


 
PRAY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
Sorry...
Didn't mean to mess up this thread. I'll go now

Yes. Pray Performance. Solid parts. Great guy.
No worries brother. I just didn't want people think I was the source of your current issues. I really wish you were able to make it to the Fest.
__________________
2016 2SS. H/C SBE 1.37 60ft, 6.36@109.49, 9.97@136+. Nuff Said.
PRAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 12:17 AM   #12
ULTRAZLS1


 
ULTRAZLS1's Avatar
 
Drives: 14 Silverado LTZ Z71, 16 Camaro SS
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Posts: 4,395
Good luck man. Enjoy.

I plan on a set down the road when I do a cam. PRAY is the man.

Still torn between a big cam and converter deep into the tens or a mild cam stock converter consistent mid to high tens...
I feel like a mild cam with some milling and thinner gaskets could get decently close to a large cam and sacrifice very little drive ability

I also dabble in roll racing from time to time and the stock converter may be better for this...

What kind/size of cam do you suggest with these heads pray?
__________________
Black 2016 1SS A8
NA bolt on stock gear stock converter. Pump E85
10.66@128.1 +750 DA
490RWHP/487RWTQ
ULTRAZLS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 05:18 AM   #13
PRAY


 
PRAY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 2SS
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1 View Post
Good luck man. Enjoy.

I plan on a set down the road when I do a cam. PRAY is the man.

Still torn between a big cam and converter deep into the tens or a mild cam stock converter consistent mid to high tens...
I feel like a mild cam with some milling and thinner gaskets could get decently close to a large cam and sacrifice very little drive ability

I also dabble in roll racing from time to time and the stock converter may be better for this...

What kind/size of cam do you suggest with these heads pray?
Thanks buddy. I would really like to get a set of my heads on your car. Another guy that races would be awesome to back up my current results.

A converter won't hurt your roll racing. Once you click over to manual mode you are all locked up. It is just like putting it on the dyno. You can also adjust your converter lock up mph to cover down on roll racing speeds.

Any cam above 223 intake duration will usually require enough idle rpm that it will pull on a stock converter. I am not sure how the A8 stock converter fares with this but that is about the limit for all the GM converters before it.

My heads flow enough air and high enough into the lift range to handle any cam you want to throw at them. However, I am not sure on cam specs yet. It appears that there is not nearly as much PTV as I was originally lead to believe in this motor. This severely limits how far forward we can advance the IVO/IVC. The IVC directly effects the DCR we can get and therefore effects the tq we will be able to produce and where in the rpm band we can make it. Given the flow characteristics of my heads I have had the best luck running cams with a tight lobe separation 110-111 and a 6*-8* split on duration. Advance is now the issue. I would say that running a bit of advance and using the computer to retard the cam would be best. But again there is the PTV issue. We are also finding out now that there are cam retard control issues with valve spring pressure overcoming the cam phaser. I have seen this first hand on the dyno with unexplained tq dips in the curve. Once we logged cam retard we found out that cam was not following the commanded retard at all. It was retarding the cam up to 5* in certain spots for no reason. Some manufactures are now offering 0*-4* limiter blocks now vs. the 25* block that comes with the comp phaser limiter kit. We are assuming that the oil pressure and spring in the stock cam phaser can't overcome the spring pressure required to run the cams being produced right now.

I still can't wrap my head around the wide lobe sep we are seeing with most of the cam manufactures right now but no one seems to want to have a conversation about it. It seems like a double whammy to me for tq production down low. I feel it would be much better to run a tighter lobe sep with no advance than run a wide lobe sep and some advance.. There must be a definitive IVO that will maintain the minimum PTV. The other issue is ramp rate. By degreeing different cam manufactures cams there is a definite difference in ramp rates. It is the .020"-.050' that seems to be the issue for PTV with some cams and not others. So duration and IVO aren't the only issues to plan around. I will figure it out eventually with a buddy of mine and then come out with my own line of cams to match my head porting.
__________________
2016 2SS. H/C SBE 1.37 60ft, 6.36@109.49, 9.97@136+. Nuff Said.
PRAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2017, 09:42 AM   #14
Dubchitts

 
Dubchitts's Avatar
 
Drives: 42 wheeler, '17 Red hot 2ss
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAY View Post
Thanks buddy. I would really like to get a set of my heads on your car. Another guy that races would be awesome to back up my current results.

A converter won't hurt your roll racing. Once you click over to manual mode you are all locked up. It is just like putting it on the dyno. You can also adjust your converter lock up mph to cover down on roll racing speeds.

Any cam above 223 intake duration will usually require enough idle rpm that it will pull on a stock converter. I am not sure how the A8 stock converter fares with this but that is about the limit for all the GM converters before it.

My heads flow enough air and high enough into the lift range to handle any cam you want to throw at them. However, I am not sure on cam specs yet. It appears that there is not nearly as much PTV as I was originally lead to believe in this motor. This severely limits how far forward we can advance the IVO/IVC. The IVC directly effects the DCR we can get and therefore effects the tq we will be able to produce and where in the rpm band we can make it. Given the flow characteristics of my heads I have had the best luck running cams with a tight lobe separation 110-111 and a 6*-8* split on duration. Advance is now the issue. I would say that running a bit of advance and using the computer to retard the cam would be best. But again there is the PTV issue. We are also finding out now that there are cam retard control issues with valve spring pressure overcoming the cam phaser. I have seen this first hand on the dyno with unexplained tq dips in the curve. Once we logged cam retard we found out that cam was not following the commanded retard at all. It was retarding the cam up to 5* in certain spots for no reason. Some manufactures are now offering 0*-4* limiter blocks now vs. the 25* block that comes with the comp phaser limiter kit. We are assuming that the oil pressure and spring in the stock cam phaser can't overcome the spring pressure required to run the cams being produced right now.

I still can't wrap my head around the wide lobe sep we are seeing with most of the cam manufactures right now but no one seems to want to have a conversation about it. It seems like a double whammy to me for tq production down low. I feel it would be much better to run a tighter lobe sep with no advance than run a wide lobe sep and some advance.. There must be a definitive IVO that will maintain the minimum PTV. The other issue is ramp rate. By degreeing different cam manufactures cams there is a definite difference in ramp rates. It is the .020"-.050' that seems to be the issue for PTV with some cams and not others. So duration and IVO aren't the only issues to plan around. I will figure it out eventually with a buddy of mine and then come out with my own line of cams to match my head porting.
If you get it all ironed out I would love to do a pray heads/cam package! Seriously man, you are amazing to this community
__________________
"Spitfire"
2017 Red Hot 2SS// 6 Piston Brembos//Adrenaline Red Interior, Knee Pads//M6//MRC

BMR MM010 Motor Mounts, Safety Loop//Elite Engineering Catch Can//Flex Fuel Kit//Gforce 3.5" Aluminum Driveshaft//GM 95mm TB//Hurst Short Throw-OEM Knob//Kooks 1-7/8 LT//MSD 2-Step//Pray Performance Stage 1 H/C, MSD//Roto-Fab Dry//Speed Engineering X-Pipe//Weapon X LT5-LT1 TB Adapter//ZL1 Fuel Pump//Labor by Me//Tune By Pray Performance
Dubchitts is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.