[Ribak433]

Okay, so excuse me in advance for potentially a dumb question. But I am old school. All mechancial, no electronics. Owned a `68 camaro. TONS of fun playing with it.
So now.... All this electronic crap is somewhat scary to me. But obviously more efficient.
Am I crazy to ask. Why would you "tune" a brand new car. I would think that GM tuned it to its ability at the factory.
What exactly does a tune do? What is being changed to gain performance that GM hasn't already done? And lastly, can just anyone tune on their car with a laptop and programming? (obviously not me) Just a general question. Oh, and one other thing. Where if I were interested, would I learn more about the turning aspects and abilities. I work on million dollar Caterpillar equipment for a living using laptops etc. But obviously don't necessarily tune. More along the lines of diganostics. Thank you in advance for your help.

[Intimidator]

I grew up sniffing exhaust and listening to a motor telling you things also!
When it comes to the New Computer cars, I was lucky to have a Nephew who trained as a tuner...I understand the basics, that's it...I can use and understand a basic programmer, or know what KNOWLEDGEABLE people are doing....that's it!

GM sets up a car to meet noise requirements, warranty lengths, and reliability standards.
This means, that there is more Meat on the Bone!
Timing can be advanced or retarded, shift points, harder/firmer shifts, you can add more gas or lean the car out, etc., etc., all across the RPM range....and for different setups, weather, etc.
Then if you start adding performance parts, you need to tune to take full advantage of them...same with Blowers, Nitrous, Turbos, etc.
You can also check codes, run diagnostic, change tire sizes, and more.

I had Ted J do my last tune on my 2012...he sent me a "canned" tune in a SCT handheld...to me that tune woke my car up...but then, I hooked the handheld back up and data logged for him and sent him the info over my home Computer...and then, he used that info and sent me another tune back to my home computer...and I downloaded it into the Handheld....when I put that tune into my car, THE THING BECAME A BEAST!

So I came from sniffing exhaust, and adjusting carbs to understanding the basics of computers and actually datalogging! lol Miracles do happen!!!

[Ribak433]

Originally Posted by Intimidator

I grew up sniffing exhaust and listening to a motor telling you things also!
When it comes to the New Computer cars, I was lucky to have a Nephew who trained as a tuner...I understand the basics, that's it...I can use and understand a basic programmer, or know what KNOWLEDGEABLE people are doing....that's it!

GM sets up a car to meet noise requirements, warranty lengths, and reliability standards.
This means, that there is more Meat on the Bone!
Timing can be advanced or retarded, shift points, harder/firmer shifts, you can add more gas or lean the car out, etc., etc., all across the RPM range....and for different setups, weather, etc.
Then if you start adding performance parts, you need to tune to take full advantage of them...same with Blowers, Nitrous, Turbos, etc.
You can also check codes, run diagnostic, change tire sizes, and more.

I had Ted J do my last tune on my 2012...he sent me a "canned" tune in a SCT handheld...to me that tune woke my car up...but then, I hooked the handheld back up and data logged for him and sent him the info over my home Computer...and then, he used that info and sent me another tune back to my home computer...and I downloaded it into the Handheld....when I put that tune into my car, THE THING BECAME A BEAST!

So I came from sniffing exhaust, and adjusting carbs to understanding the basics of computers and actually datalogging! lol Miracles do happen!!!

Thanks for the reply kind sir!
Have you done any research, reading, etc. to learn more? Or are you just kind of winging it with friends/techs and picking up info along the way? If you have done research. Any good reads/books you might suggest?

[Intimidator]

Originally Posted by Ribak433

Thanks for the reply kind sir!
Have you done any research, reading, etc. to learn more? Or are you just kind of winging it with friends/techs and picking up info along the way? If you have done research. Any good reads/books you might suggest?

ALOT smarter people are on here that can help you more! I mainly just listen and absorb....that makes me VERY Dangerous!
That's why I leave my tuning to People like Ted Jannetty....there are plenty of Good Tuners around that I have heard of.
The DiabloSport guys, actually got alot of air time on FAST AND LOUD when they came over from Florida to bail Aaron out, when he decided to be the first to run a HellCat 707 bare, in a old Fury drag car, without the stock HellCat harness or sensors!
A good tuner now is like the good tuners back in the day, but the new guys have alot more stuff that can be controlled precisely by a lap top (engine, trans, shocks, etc!).

[70454]

The main reason for a tune is to gain hp by adjusting things such as timing a/f ratios and many other things. Car Manufacturers tune their cars very conservatively from the factory to keep people from blowing the engines up and such. Audi is very conservative I remember working on a buddies S4 or A4 and tuning the car different from the stock parameters and gaining like 40hp to the wheels. Most cars you can chip/ or change the ecu/pcm or whatever the car manufacturer calls their computer module and that new ecu will have different adjustments built into the new chip that add hp and such. That is the simpliest way I can try to explain it but it is very complex.

[stratt]

Will a tune void your warranty?

[70454]

It definitely can void a warranty issue or warranty part but it can't void your entire warranty. It just depends on the car manufacturer but technically by law the manufacturer has to prove that your modification or in this case the tune caused the problem.

[stratt]

Originally Posted by 70454

It definitely can void a warranty issue or warranty part but it can't void your entire warranty. It just depends on the car manufacturer but technically by law the manufacturer has to prove that your modification or in this case the tune caused the problem.

So if something goes wrong it can be flashged back to stock? Is there a bulit in flash counter
On the car?

[70454]

I believe the stock pcm will know if you reflash it or go from one pcm to another but I can't verify this because I haven't received my SS yet.

So if you mod your car and mess something up and then go back to a stock flash or reflash the pcm/etc GM can tell that you did that I believe.

[70454]

Basically read the magnuson-moss warranty act and it will tell you your rights as the consumer vs the manufacturer.

[TSloper]

GM has a few things to serve...

- EPA
- warranty
- all conditions that a driver may encounter (weather, fuel grades, loading)

GM could absolutely deliver the car with the most optimized tune for performance possible but it would require 93 octane (not 91) and would throw the emissions out the window. Are they leaving much on the table? Not really. What they do leave is easily corrected if you can run 93 octane fuel and don't care about keeping emissions in check or complying.

Tuning can be done by anyone but you really really need to understand beyond just the basics of spark/fuel. Those are the end results. The days of simple lookup tables are gone. A lot of realtime higher order calculations are done and the coefficients for those equations can't usually infer a result all by themselves. The ECM no longer is responding to throttle position as dictated by the driver. It is deciding what the throttle position will be based on many other systems working concurrently. You may want the throttle open all of the way and the ECM will conclude that it should only be open 50% and that is what you will get.

To make the job even harder the current tools available to average Joe are not comprehensive in their coverage of all of the possible variables and knobs you could adjust. I'd say on the 2016s there is just enough exposed to get by on most combinations. Torque management is an area where there is actually very little exposed.

[Intimidator]

Yes, the computer counts the number of flashes...Some Dealers refuse to subscribe to the Warranty Act and will refuse warranty work...other dealers can care less!

I think this time, I am going to do the Factory GM Air Intake upgrade and the re-flash that comes with it...that way everything is under Warranty!

[TSloper]

Originally Posted by 70454

I believe the stock pcm will know if you reflash it or go from one pcm to another but I can't verify this because I haven't received my SS yet.

So if you mod your car and mess something up and then go back to a stock flash or reflash the pcm/etc GM can tell that you did that I believe.

GM can see if you have programmed the ECM by looking at the segment checksum. It could be circumvented but HP Tuners has chosen not to do this. I don't know why. I'm speculating it would burn some bridges they may have with GM folks.

Even if you revert back to factory programming the checksum history is still there. So there is really no way to hide it.

[00 Trans Ram]

From a pure engine HP standpoint, there are some gains to be made with only a tune. Not a lot, but some.

Tuning is really for aftermarket things. Add a cold air intake? Well, now you've got different air going in and a tune can help maximize the performance (not a lot from a CAI, but the point is the same). The benefits of a tune, for HP, go up with more mods.

However, everything in our cars is controlled by the ECM, TCM, BCM, etc. That's Engine, Transmission, and Body Control Modules. If you have an auto, you can tune shift points, shift pressures, rpm limits, and even create entire profiles to correspond with different shit modes (normal, sport, manual, etc.).

Also, you can tune a lot of other things on the car. With the Camaro, I'm sure that, at some point, you'll be able to hack into the suspension settings and other stuff.