[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Yup, everybody on hear thinks I’m crazy when I said the first time I drove an SS on the highway I was thinking to myself “that’s it?”

Coyote is like two honda motors welded together.

Camaro = Chassis and suspension out of a $100k plus european sports car with a motor that prefers mickey thompsons and skinnies up front.

Mustang = honda accord with the engine out of a 100k European sports car.

Come on guy. I like the yote don’t get me wrong but how many have won the 24 hrs of lemans

[OneSlowV]

Originally Posted by smokinzx14r

Didn't mean to say a scat pack was slow , with a few mods they can fly even at the heavy weight . I was talking stock .

I didn’t get to run mine stock with dragpack and tune it went 11.66@117 in 3200 da I know the 1320 went 10.77@123 bolt on. Nobody really pushed the dodge platform until lately hopefully you mod yours

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Come on guy. I like the yote don’t get me wrong but how many have won the 24 hrs of lemans

I’m not sure what that has to do with how much I enjoy driving it.

It is my favorite motor of all time though. Too bad it’s attached to a pile of crap.

[smokinzx14r]

Originally Posted by OneSlowV

I didn’t get to run mine stock with dragpack and tune it went 11.66@117 in 3200 da I know the 1320 went 10.77@123 bolt on. Nobody really pushed the dodge platform until lately hopefully you mod yours

Not making any changes to mine right now ( I want to keep my warranty ) Maybe down the road a tune and e85 .. Right now I'm pretty happy with the low 11.60s being 100% stock even in a bad DA .. I think it has some 11.50s in it in a good DA ..I'll find out next winter I guess ..Knowing myself I'll mostlikey trade up to a hell Cat at some point My friend just put a pulley on his hell cat and a e85 tune and ran a 9.52 ..Made over 900 on the dyno .. I did all that stuff to my 2015 Mustang , Procharger , E85 , Id1000 injectors and ran 9.80s ..

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

It is quite proven the 5.0 is faster up top and the 6.2 is faster down low. Go drive a 5.0 - had one. Was fast up top, not really fun on the street down low - too revvy. The good ole push rod is always more fun on the street.

IMHO

Most people say this but don't really understand what's happening, yes the 5.0 is a higher reving motor, but it's not necessarily why some say "they pull higher up top".

A lot of it is gearing, a camaro m6 will smoke an m6 5.0 all the way to the 130s but once you shift into the super tall 5th gear the camaro hits a wall and the mustang can stay at high rpm's in 4th all the way to 150mph. The c7 can also reach about 150 in 4th.

The corvettes pull harder up top than a camaro, same lt1. Just look at car and drivers numbers. 1/4 the corvette is a tenth faster than the ss, and the ss is 3 tenths faster than the GT.

When you look at 0 to 150 however it takes 25.6 seconds and the GT just 23.3 seconds. However the vette with that same lt1 does it in 22.1, as fast as a 526hp shelby gt350.

Obviously the corvette is lighter and more aerodynamic but its also the gearing. The a8 auto on the camaro also dies around 5th gear.

For the sake of comparison an a8 ss tested by C&D did 0 to 150 in 25.1 seconds, no 0 to 150 for the a10 ss but the a10 gt did it in 21.7 seconds, and an a8 corvette vert did it in 21.5.

For those that think a 15 to 17 5.0 is also faster up top, that is a 29 second 0 to 150 car in a 6 six speed manual.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Good video

That is a good video, and once the camaro shifts into 5th around 140mph it'd be over either way but to be fair that was a 1le with more aero drag vs a pp1.

The more comparable pp2 GT while still faster than the camaro in 0 to 150 traps less than the 1le in the 1/4 mile and would be a better race.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by OneSlowV

I’ve owned two 5.0 cars and on my second lt1 . Nether one of my 5.0 cars pulled like the LT1 mod for mod NA up top. So to the quite proven part is false to me I’ve gapped a lot of new A10s on the street and track haven’t seen a 5.0 trap anywhere close to what I’ve ran here lol

This is quite false, people just repeat the nonsense they hear. The 5.0 does do a little better at high rpm but its main advantage is the top end gearing in the mustangs, especially the a10.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Bizlipkick

this is emphasized with the new gearing in the 18 amd ups with the mt-82. You hit the nail on the head

I can attest to this, while I find the camaro to be plenty mild mannered for normal driving.. my cousins 19 GT m6, which I drive often, is just a little more tamed due to the softer hitting 5.0 down low.

And now that they have much longer gearing vs the 15 to 17 cars, it's much more noticeable imo.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Yup, everybody on hear thinks I’m crazy when I said the first time I drove an SS on the highway I was thinking to myself “that’s it?”

Coyote is like two honda motors welded together.

Camaro = Chassis and suspension out of a $100k plus european sports car with a motor that prefers mickey thompsons and skinnies up front.

Mustang = honda accord with the engine out of a 100k European sports car.

I disagree with a lot of what you say on this topic but not with how the motors feel, on that I agree. The camaro hits hard early but just kind of stays there and the feeling of something pushing you doesn't change much. From about 4k to 5.5k it feels the most dramatic.

The 5.0 doesnt hit very hard but it just keeps building and you feel that, from 5k - 7k it feels like a honda hitting vtec and I mean that in a good way.

5.0 definately feels like the faster car, but over 50 pulls on my m6 ss vs this 19 gt m6, the car that felt faster was not faster. To be fair though our pulls always end around 135ish mph. I concede that if we to go 150mph I'm going to get passed.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Most people say this but don't really understand what's happening, yes the 5.0 is a higher reving motor, but it's not necessarily why some say "they pull higher up top".

A lot of it is gearing, a camaro m6 will smoke an m6 5.0 all the way to the 130s but once you shift into the super tall 5th gear the camaro hits a wall and the mustang can stay at high rpm's in 4th all the way to 150mph. The c7 can also reach about 150 in 4th.

The corvettes pull harder up top than a camaro, same lt1. Just look at car and drivers numbers. 1/4 the corvette is a tenth faster than the ss, and the ss is 3 tenths faster than the GT.

When you look at 0 to 150 however it takes 25.6 seconds and the GT just 23.3 seconds. However the vette with that same lt1 does it in 22.1, as fast as a 526hp shelby gt350.

Obviously the corvette is lighter and more aerodynamic but its also the gearing. The a8 auto on the camaro also dies around 5th gear.

For the sake of comparison an a8 ss tested by C&D did 0 to 150 in 25.1 seconds, no 0 to 150 for the a10 ss but the a10 gt did it in 21.7 seconds, and an a8 corvette vert did it in 21.5.

For those that think a 15 to 17 5.0 is also faster up top, that is a 29 second 0 to 150 car in a 6 six speed manual.

If my 2011 5.0 is anything like the new ones, there is no way it’s beating a camaro in any sort of real world drag race. The camaro hooks so much better and has so much more low end torque the mustang would just be catching up from a huge gap on the launch.

Personally, I find high revving motors that make their power up top to be more fun if the purpose of the vehicle is simply a fun car. In a fun car, I don’t know about you guys, but i like to drive them at 8/10’s or more since the only reason i own it is to have fun. The mustang is a blast at 8/10’s.

I mean, there’s a reason that every single high end sports car does not have a powerband like a small block. It’s simply more fun to rev it out.

The gm small block is the world champion in
Hp:cost
Hp:motor weight
Hp:motor size
Hp:reliability (debatable but it’s certainly in the top 5)

It’s why nearly every single home built car, in which they can obviously use any motor, usually uses the gm small block v8.

That being said, it is not the king of driving feel, in fact, out of any sports car remotely comparable in power, I’d say it’s one of the worst.

Disclaimer, I have never been in a highly modified high revving small block. I’d like to imagine something like an ls7 with a cam would be fantastic, but I’ve never experienced it. The lt1 is the most powerful small block I’ve driven.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

If my 2011 5.0 is anything like the new ones, there is no way it’s beating a camaro in any sort of real world drag race. The camaro hooks so much better and has so much more low end torque the mustang would just be catching up from a huge gap on the launch.

Personally, I find high revving motors that make their power up top to be more fun if the purpose of the vehicle is simply a fun car. In a fun car, I don’t know about you guys, but i like to drive them at 8/10’s or more since the only reason i own it is to have fun. The mustang is a blast at 8/10’s.

I mean, there’s a reason that every single high end sports car does not have a powerband like a small block. It’s simply more fun to rev it out.

The gm small block is the world champion in
Hp:cost
Hp:motor weight
Hp:motor size
Hp:reliability (debatable but it’s certainly in the top 5)

It’s why nearly every single home built car, in which they can obviously use any motor, usually uses the gm small block v8.

That being said, it is not the king of driving feel, in fact, out of any sports car remotely comparable in power, I’d say it’s one of the worst.

Disclaimer, I have never been in a highly modified high revving small block. I’d like to imagine something like an ls7 with a cam would be fantastic, but I’ve never experienced it. The lt1 is the most powerful small block I’ve driven.

No 2011 GT is playing catch up with any 6th gen ss. The gap just keeps widening.

That's your opinion, I personally prefer to have a lot of power early so that I can have fun with the car without even having to rev it out of go 8/10s.. and when you do push it, it's even more rewarding.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

If my 2011 5.0 is anything like the new ones, there is no way it’s beating a camaro in any sort of real world drag race. The camaro hooks so much better and has so much more low end torque the mustang would just be catching up from a huge gap on the launch.

Personally, I find high revving motors that make their power up top to be more fun if the purpose of the vehicle is simply a fun car. In a fun car, I don’t know about you guys, but i like to drive them at 8/10’s or more since the only reason i own it is to have fun. The mustang is a blast at 8/10’s.

I mean, there’s a reason that every single high end sports car does not have a powerband like a small block. It’s simply more fun to rev it out.

The gm small block is the world champion in
Hp:cost
Hp:motor weight
Hp:motor size
Hp:reliability (debatable but it’s certainly in the top 5)

It’s why nearly every single home built car, in which they can obviously use any motor, usually uses the gm small block v8.

That being said, it is not the king of driving feel, in fact, out of any sports car remotely comparable in power, I’d say it’s one of the worst.

Disclaimer, I have never been in a highly modified high revving small block. I’d like to imagine something like an ls7 with a cam would be fantastic, but I’ve never experienced it. The lt1 is the most powerful small block I’ve driven.

The extra 5 years of development is what will keep the 2011 5.0 from keeping up with the LT1. It's well documented that the new Mustangs and Camaros are pretty close in speed.

I can say that I enjoyed the Coyote motor more than any of the motors in the Camaro, other than maybe a ZL1, I haven't driven that one.

[JROC]

People always claim that the LT1 is a boring motor that while effective lacks personality and doesn't like to rev. I disagree. IMHO a stock LT1's powerband very much resembles a stock Terminators only a little stronger. When you've got good power at as low as 2000 RPM's that's not lacking personality IMO. As far as revs it's redline is what, I think 6600 RPM's? Fuel cutoff at like 6,800? Other than your 13+ GT500's I know of no Modular motor that makes those kind of revs and torque from the factory that an LT1 puts out.

IMO Coyote shines at making big power with boost. Ford's OHC motors just feel like they are meant for boosting as they handle it so well, and in a very refined way. But when trying to make big N/A power it's going to hit its limits well before a GEN4/GEN5 SBC with a 4+" bore. I often say that I prefer Fords boosted and my Chevys N/A.

And yes in 2011 Ford started getting serious with how they geared the Mustangs especially in the transmission. GM always gears their car very long-legged. Trying to let the motors torque pull it into its powerband. Long-legged is great in very powerful and/or lightweight cars (like a C6Z) but not ideal in heavier cars even with decent power.

If someone thinks a SBC lacks personality then they've likely not ridden in a car that's been cammed by someone who knows what they are doing. If you've ever ridden in an given stock LSx car and then ridden in the same car only cammed/bolton there's a huge difference in personality between. They quickly go from feeling like a broad brute to feeling like a hyperactive motor rushing to redline to get to the next gear as soon as possible. At least in the cammed LS cars I've been in. They are very entertaining. If you feel your GEN5 SBC lacks personality then don't be scared cam it. This also will give you a great reason to delete the AFM and its lifter. Then you will likely achieve a motpr capable of living up to that "SBC being ultra reliable" status. As long as you keep your valvetrain maintained properly.

Also people push this narrative that DOHC means it revs high, and OHV mean good torque but poor topend and low RPM's. These things aren't necessarily true. While yes to get a OHV motor to rev you need to invest in some good valvetrain components that emphasize light weight, but the real thing is can a motor breathe at X RPM's. Several DOHC Modulars redlined at only 6,200 RPM's. Coyote is never going to make lowend power like a LT1 will while remaining N/A. It would be pointless for them to try to replicate it with a N/A 5 liter motor. What they can do is make it rev to make very good power on the big end. GM has made the OEM GEN5 motors to emphasize a broad/linear powerband. The thing is GEN5 heads easily flow well enough to make good revs on a 4.06" bore and make power at 7000+ RPM's. IMHO the factory cam is what limits the LT1's topend, but that's a good thing as it's a relatively easy way to change the motor characteristics if you're wanting a more rev happy motor that emphasizes revs and topend power over a broad/torque powerband.

I saw this one video where this Sierra with a 6.2L good a new Whipple and it only made in like the 550 WHP range. You might say that that's pathetic for a 6.2L modern motor to only made that kind of power with a 2.9L twin screw blower and I would agree. The thing is that truck made like 750'ish lb-ft. They got to talking and said that this truck is just a cam swap away from making very big power, and I agree with that as well. The GEN5 6.2L truck cam is made to make its best power in a way idea for towing and hauling big loads. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't LT1 heads the same as the GEN5 6.2L truck heads?

Even a LS7 with a 4" stroke will rev to 7200 RPM's. That's because it's valvetrain can function correctly at those RPM's, it's oil and coolant systems can support them, and the motor flows well enough to breathe at those RPM's. Building LS motors with 4"+ bores using a 4.8L's crank, (I believe it produces a 3.25" stroke) some very highflowing heads, and building them with valvetrain components and supporting systems designed to handle high RPM's has become a pretty popular thing.

How about an LS motor that turns over 10,200 RPM's? If I'm not mistake this motor even uses a 3.6" stroke.

https://youtu.be/_-h4FeSgHIo

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by JROC

I saw this one video where this Sierra with a 6.2L good a new Whipple and it only made in like the 550 WHP range. You might say that that's pathetic for a 6.2L modern motor to only made that kind of power with a 2.9L twin screw blower and I would agree. The thing is that truck made like 750'ish lb-ft. They got to talking and said that this truck is just a cam swap away from making very big power, and I agree with that as well. The GEN5 6.2L truck cam is made to make its best power in a way idea for towing and hauling big loads. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't LT1 heads the same as the GEN5 6.2L truck heads?

The truck 6.2, the l86, has the same exact cam as the lt1. Crank, cam, valves, pistons, rods, spring, the entire longblock is identical, part number for part number. The only difference is the intake and exhaust manifolds.

The trucks dyno low because of drivetrain losses. It’s something like 22%.

There is no l86 dyno that is in the “550whp range and 750ish torque” ...you just made that up.

That’s infact the most ridiculous stat I’ve ever heard since torque and hp meet at 5250 rpm, which means it would have to make 750ft lbs of torque at like 3800rpm and then fall off a cliff, made even worse by the fact you said it had a 2.9L blower.