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Old 03-23-2020, 02:52 PM   #1
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GT 500 vs ZL1

2020 Ford Mustang GT500
0-60 mph ----- 3.3 seconds
Quarter Mile ----- 10.61 sec @ 133 MPH
HP & Engine ----- 760 hp, SC 5.2 liter V8
Torque ----- 625 lb-ft

2019 Chevy Camaro ZL1
0-60 mph ----- 3.5 seconds
Quarter Mile ----- 11.4 sec @ 127 MPH
HP & Engine ----- 650 hp, SC 6.2 liter V8
Torque ----- 650 lb-ft

Stumbled across this today while browsing the web. I immediately though to myself, what if the ZL1 had an additional 100 HP, how would the comparison above change? Curious if the ZL1 would perform better, equal to or just behind the GT500?
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:59 PM   #2
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We have a whole forum for this:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=224
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:02 PM   #3
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Ok thanks, I'll check it out.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:20 PM   #4
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My best guess is an additional 100 hp would get the ZL1 to within .2 of the GT500. I think it would take the ZL1 an extra 150hp to get to the low 10.6s. You could also get there with the extra 100hp if the car was about 250# lighter.
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:10 PM   #5
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Here are the cliff notes. The GT500's "10.6" was an individual owner time. The ZL1's 11.4 was a magazine time. You cannot compare those two fairly. Over here we typically compare owner times to owner times and magazine times to magazine times. In which case the ZL1 in individual owner hands has gone 10.9 which puts it within 3 tenths of a second of the GT500. In magazine times when tested together the GT500 went 11.4 and the ZL1 went 11.5 so that is only a 1 tenth of a second difference. So the GT500 is not much faster despite all that extra HP and being $20K to $30K more expensive depending on trim.

I would say that with only an extra 50 HP the ZL1 will toast the GT500 if not completely match it. This is because the ZL1 is a much better engineered car than the GT500 is. GM typically underpowers their cars and still manages to keep up with the competition's mega HP gorillas. However when GM's cars have the HP advantage or matches the HP or comes even within 20-30 HP it typically is unfair because the competition would have no chance. Which is why Ford and Dodge won't come at the 755 HP ZR1. They'll get murdered. They won't even come at the Z06. And that is in a straight line. Throw them on a track and it's lights out. So GM has to keep the power lower to make it fair for Ford and Dodge and so it would actually be a challenge instead of just completely obliterating the competition. This will be demonstrated soon when the C8 Z06 arrives. It will still be underpowered but it is gonna take the GT500's lunch.
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Alponcho View Post
My best guess is an additional 100 hp would get the ZL1 to within .2 of the GT500. I think it would take the ZL1 an extra 150hp to get to the low 10.6s. You could also get there with the extra 100hp if the car was about 250# lighter.
If the ZL1 had 750 HP, it would also have over 700 lb-ft.

It's already over 400 lbs lighter than the GT500.

Assuming A10 ZL1 (non-1LE) and GT500 without big rear wing, same tires (eg. both on PSC2--more grip hot than GY SC3), why would a lighter car with equal HP and maybe 100 lb-ft more TQ still be slower than the GT500?
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:35 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Alponcho View Post
My best guess is an additional 100 hp would get the ZL1 to within .2 of the GT500. I think it would take the ZL1 an extra 150hp to get to the low 10.6s. You could also get there with the extra 100hp if the car was about 250# lighter.
Yea except the zl1 is already capable of being a 10.9 car just 3 tenths off of the gt500. Thats the gt500s record run, same as the zl1s best hero run of 10.9. Those 11.4-11.6 numbers for the zl1 are magazine numbers on a street surface where the gt500 is a 11.3-11.5 car. In reality, in good hands the gt500 is a high tens car and the zl1 is a low 11s car when talking about good non hero runs, probably no more than .5 of a difference, another hundred horsepower would probably tie that up for the zl1.
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
Here are the cliff notes. The GT500's "10.6" was an individual owner time. The ZL1's 11.4 was a magazine time. You cannot compare those two fairly. Over here we typically compare owner times to owner times and magazine times to magazine times. In which case the ZL1 in individual owner hands has gone 11.9 which puts it within 3 tenths of a second of the GT500. In magazine times when tested together the GT500 went 11.4 and the ZL1 went 11.5 so that is only a 1 tenth of a second difference. So the GT500 is not much faster despite all that extra HP and being $20K to $30K more expensive depending on trim.

I would say that with only an extra 50 HP the ZL1 will toast the GT500 if not completely match it. This is because the ZL1 is a much better engineered car than the GT500 is. GM typically underpowers their cars and still manages to keep up with the competition's mega HP gorillas. However when GM's cars have the HP advantage or matches the HP or comes even within 20-30 HP it typically is unfair because the competition would have no chance. Which is why Ford and Dodge won't come at the 755 HP ZR1. They'll get murdered. They won't even come at the Z06. And that is in a straight line. Throw them on a track and it's lights out. So GM has to keep the power lower to make it fair for Ford and Dodge and so it would actually be a challenge instead of just completely obliterating the competition. This will be demonstrated soon when the C8 Z06 arrives. It will still be underpowered but it is gonna take the GT500's lunch.
This. They never want to step to the zr1 because in reality the gt500 is not fsster than an lt4 z06 no matter what Stangmode puts on his channel of his "stock" gt500 running with or edging out a z06.

You do have a typo though bhole.... 10.9 not 11.9 lol
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:48 PM   #9
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This. They never want to step to the zr1 because in reality the gt500 is not fsster than an lt4 z06 no matter what Stangmode puts on his channel of his "stock" gt500 running with or edging out a z06.
That dude is only gonna put himself in races where he has the advantage. So I don't take anything he has to say seriously. Even against the Z06 the advantage goes to the GT500 since the LT4 has been unchanged since 2015. Anywhere other than a prepped surface in the most amazing conditions and the GT500 will lose. And even if it does run 10s it most likely will only do it one time during that entire day.

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You do have a typo though bhole.... 10.9 not 11.9 lol
Thanks. Corrected.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:51 PM   #10
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If the ZL1 had 750 HP, it would also have over 700 lb-ft.

It's already over 400 lbs lighter than the GT500.

Assuming A10 ZL1 (non-1LE) and GT500 without big rear wing, same tires (eg. both on PSC2--more grip hot than GY SC3), why would a lighter car with equal HP and maybe 100 lb-ft more TQ still be slower than the GT500?
There are a lot of factors besides HP and weight that might explain differences in times between two different cars that have comparable HP and weight. But the question the OP asked doesn't really require comparing the two cars at all--it's just physics. A car weighing 4,000# with 650hp takes 11.4 seconds to cover a quarter mile (I'm just using the OP's figures)...if the same 4,000# car had 750hp, how much time would the car take to cover the same distance. Only 1 variable changes. In this scenario, I don't think the extra 100ph is going to shave a full 8/10, that's all. I might be wrong. Certainly easy to check my guess with online drag racing calculators.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:56 PM   #11
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Yea except the zl1 is already capable of being a 10.9 car just 3 tenths off of the gt500. Thats the gt500s record run, same as the zl1s best hero run of 10.9. Those 11.4-11.6 numbers for the zl1 are magazine numbers on a street surface where the gt500 is a 11.3-11.5 car. In reality, in good hands the gt500 is a high tens car and the zl1 is a low 11s car when talking about good non hero runs, probably no more than .5 of a difference, another hundred horsepower would probably tie that up for the zl1.
Yes, I understand. I was just going through the scenario outlined by the OP based on the numbers the OP provided. If a 4000# car with 650hp can do an 11.4, what can the same car do with an extra 100hp (and by extension, can it get to a 10.6)?
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Alponcho View Post
There are a lot of factors besides HP and weight that might explain differences in times between two different cars that have comparable HP and weight. But the question the OP asked doesn't really require comparing the two cars at all--it's just physics. A car weighing 4,000# with 650hp takes 11.4 seconds to cover a quarter mile (I'm just using the OP's figures)...if the same 4,000# car had 750hp, how much time would the car take to cover the same distance. Only 1 variable changes. In this scenario, I don't think the extra 100ph is going to shave a full 8/10, that's all. I might be wrong. Certainly easy to check my guess with online drag racing calculators.
You would have had to be present in the entire thread where we discussed all this at length in order to fully understand.

There are a lot of things the ZL1 has that allows it to keep up with cars that have much more HP. A few of those things are better weight distribution, eLSD, better ECU and trans tuning, of course as mentioned it is lighter, the A10 trans and the gear ratios, etc. Which is why as we have said, the ZL1 in individual owner hands is only about 3 tenths of a second off from the GT500 in individual owner hands. When tested by a magazine and without every single last factor being ideal, the GT500 and ZL1 are pretty much neck and neck. The ZL1 has been 11.4-11.6 while the GT500 has been 11.3 to 11.5. I am not getting into which trim did what. On top of that, when the timers were removed and the test involved which car could cover the quarter mile distance first, the ZL1 beat the GT500 pretty soundly. So there is that. The ZL1 would not need 750+ HP to match the GT500. It would utterly destroy the GT500 without putting up a sweat if it had the same HP. If the ZL1 had even 700 HP it would be lights out. Like I said, the ZL1 is a much better engineered car than anything Ford can make.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
You would have had to be present in the entire thread where we discussed all this at length in order to fully understand.

There are a lot of things the ZL1 has that allows it to keep up with cars that have much more HP. A few of those things are better weight distribution, eLSD, better ECU and trans tuning, of course as mentioned it is lighter, the A10 trans and the gear ratios, etc. Which is why as we have said, the ZL1 in individual owner hands is only about 3 tenths of a second off from the GT500 in individual owner hands. When tested by a magazine and without every single last factor being ideal, the GT500 and ZL1 are pretty much neck and neck. The ZL1 has been 11.4-11.6 while the GT500 has been 11.3 to 11.5. I am not getting into which trim did what. On top of that, when the timers were removed and the test involved which car could cover the quarter mile distance first, the ZL1 beat the GT500 pretty soundly. So there is that. The ZL1 would not need 750+ HP to match the GT500. It would utterly destroy the GT500 without putting up a sweat if it had the same HP. If the ZL1 had even 700 HP it would be lights out. Like I said, the ZL1 is a much better engineered car than anything Ford can make.
Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly what I was pondering, given how well the ZL1 is engineered, how would these two perform side by side with similar horsepower. If the the ZL1 is only 3 tenths away from the GT500 with a 100 HP disadvantage, then an additional 100 HP in the ZL1 (making them about equal HP wise) would definitely put the ZL1 in front. Whether it would "utterly destroy the GT500 without putting up a sweat" or not is questionable, I would have to agree it would smoke the GT500.

Now that begs the question, what is the easiest way to get an additional 100 HP? Headers, CAI and a tune, or is that more like a 60 HP gain? Although those 3 may be enough to take the GT500.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:52 PM   #14
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Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly what I was pondering, given how well the ZL1 is engineered, how would these two perform side by side with similar horsepower. If the the ZL1 is only 3 tenths away from the GT500 with a 100 HP disadvantage, then an additional 100 HP in the ZL1 (making them about equal HP wise) would definitely put the ZL1 in front. Whether it would "utterly destroy the GT500 without putting up a sweat" or not is questionable, I would have to agree it would smoke the GT500.

Now that begs the question, what is the easiest way to get an additional 100 HP? Headers, CAI and a tune, or is that more like a 60 HP gain? Although those 3 may be enough to take the GT500.
LTs, catback, tune, CAI, and pulley should do the trick. However a similarly modded GT500 will respond better to mods than the ZL1 will so they will gain more HP when directly compared. Their issue will be getting that power to the tires. On anything but a prepped race surface with DRs and every trick known to mankind in the best possible conditions they will be high 10s at best IF that. Typically they will be low 11s to mid 10s in regular conditions while the ZL1 with it's much better design will be much better. In a roll race tho they will have the advantage. Our advantage comes from the fact that we can get power to the ground much more effectively and efficiently.
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