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Old 12-08-2018, 08:49 AM   #71
mdhopt36
 
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Sounds like the same siren song to me.

EV's at GM pretty much a flop. After no subsidy, they will fall right on their face.
And still, GM persuing the idea to sell them to public? How stupid can mgmt be?

Get this--- MAJORITY of customers aren't going to buy into the idea of an EV, regardless who makes it. Present infrastructure as it's at now doesn't support EV's.

Why are EV's pushed so hard onto the public?

They keep this up, GM will go belly-up, and find themselves in court over the bailout.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:00 AM   #72
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"I see a trend, where all manufacturers feel they have reached the end of the horsepower Wars."


How short our memories are???
They said that in the early '70's. Was crap then, and is now. Same as the idea of EV's replacing ICE's.
Never happen.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:02 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by mdhopt36 View Post
Sounds like the same siren song to me.

EV's at GM pretty much a flop. After no subsidy, they will fall right on their face.
And still, GM persuing the idea to sell them to public? How stupid can mgmt be?

Get this--- MAJORITY of customers aren't going to buy into the idea of an EV, regardless who makes it. Present infrastructure as it's at now doesn't support EV's.

Why are EV's pushed so hard onto the public?

They keep this up, GM will go belly-up, and find themselves in court over the bailout.
The infrastructure thing for EVs is way overplayed. People look at the range for electric vehicles, notice that there is not a charging station on every corner, and assume they can’t recharge when they need to. They overlook one very simple fact. Every morning you wake up with a “full tank”.

We have had Chevrolet Volts in our household since 2012. Every morning we wake up with a full charge. For the one we have now that means 45 - 60 miles, depending on temperature. Most days that is more than enough for the day’s duties. With a Chevrolet Bolt having 238 miles per charge, that would be about a week’s worth of mileage from charging overnight. For those 3 - 5 times a year where you make a trip that actually requires more than 200 miles in a day, Bolt and other long range battery electrics offer fast chargers that can had around 80 - 90 miles in 20 minutes. And newer battery electrics are coming with about 300 miles of range. Over time, it could get even better. You won’t need charging stations on every corner. Just in your garage.

But still, the biggest issue is that most battery electric owners will charge overnight at home and have more than enough range to get through a day. What about people who live on the 7th floor of an apartment or condo? They won’t drive an electric car. ICE cars will still be around.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:09 AM   #74
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"Continue dropping".. It's practically at all time highs now.
Tesla ended down yesterday and is down from its yearly high , once they lose there subsides and GM starts producing better EV's we will see how their stock goes then . I believe if Tesla sticks around they will just be building higher end cars like Fisker is doing now with the Emotion .
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:12 AM   #75
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I see a trend, where all manufacturers feel they have reached the end of the horsepower Wars. Even Ford is eliminating its lineup of cars except for the Mustang. Will the GT500 be the last big motor in a Mustang ? Waiting to see what Dodge is going to do.
I also think a hybrid Camaro is in the works for the next Generation.
WIll GT500 be the last big motor in a Mustang? Depends on how you define big. Expect that when S650 appears, a GT350 will follow a year or two in.

Waiting to see what Dodge is going to do? They just did it. Redeye. 797 hp. Plus they bumped up the Hellcat to 717. Not sure they need to do much else, but there is evidence of a Hemi upgrade coming in a few years.

Hybrid Camaro? Probably. Doesnít mean there wonít be an SS. Or a 1LE. Or a ZL1.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:20 AM   #76
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LOL you guys are missing the point. It isn't whether or not you or I want an EV it's whether an ADAS level 4 or 5 vehicle needs to be an EV.

The market is changing. Fewer and fewer people want to buy, own and maintain something. More and more people use Uber and Lyft (I have yet to). And a huge part of the cost of Uber and Lyft is the driver.

Besides this is really more about change than it is about propulsion. We just like things to stay the same. I look at my LaCrosse. I get around 250 miles to before I have to stop and fill up. About the same range as a Bolt on a single charge. The newer electric vehicles can get an 80% recharge in about 15 minutes now. And that is getting better as is the range.

For everyone claiming "there is no infrastructure" you need to understand the demand isn't there yet. When it is it will almost correct itself over night as people will realize the profit potential of providing that service to the economy. That's how it works.

Besides I know people that are taking trips in their Teslas all the time. None seem horribly inconvenienced at the prospect of recharging on the road.


Just get ready. It's coming whether you like it or not. And like AO or not, he likely didn't get moved to EV programs as punishment. So one of two things:


a) Al was moved because they believe he can do more for future EV programs to influence the future profitability of the company.

b) There is no future for Camaro so let's move Al off the platform and on to something else and bring Mark in to mop up until the Camaro simply dies off.

And there is a subset to a) being the NG Camaro is such a game changer as an EV they moved Al to EV programs for that reason alone.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:25 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le View Post
Tesla ended down yesterday and is down from its yearly high , once they lose there subsides and GM starts producing better EV's we will see how their stock goes then . I believe if Tesla sticks around they will just be building higher end cars like Fisker is doing now with the Emotion .
The whole market has taken a dump this week so Tesla’s drop is more market influenced than any evaluation of Tesla as a company. As far as the subsidies, for the Model S and the Model X, the demographic of the people buying those are not gonna freak out over $7,500. They may or may not forego an option to keep the price in line or they may just go “whatever” and buy the car anyway. For Model 3 buyers, there will likely be some sensitivity and some of the pre-order buyers may bail because they can’t get a $35k Tesla. Not enough will bail to impact Tesla stock price.

And for that matter, Tesla’s stock price is not based on how many vehicles they sell. Never has been. It is based on what investors see as the long term potential of the company and its ability to disrupt the auto industry. Also, a lot of the money Tesla does bring in is in the form of sale of Zero Emissions Credits to automakers unable to generate enough of their own credits. That will continue.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:46 AM   #78
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Why don't you tell them about battery loss, as in loss in range over time, you have it now, how will that be dealt with? ( volt went from max range, after 1 year that drops X%) so now every 2-3 year new battery's, is that covered by GM warranty ?
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:46 AM   #79
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Did ya hear Al is leaving???

.............
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:51 AM   #80
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MmmHmm....We heard.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:58 AM   #81
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From Al..


I would like to share this post with everyone from Camaro Nation, as well as all of my friends and family. It has truly been very humbling to see the outpouring of well wishes and thanks from everyone on my announcement. I have always considered myself a lucky and blessed man to have been able to do what I have done for General Motors. Many of you know I have always been a Camaro guy, way back to my first car, my '70 1/2. Many of you have heard my story of being in the very room in March 2005, when our leadership decided it was time to bring the Camaro back as a concept car at the 2006 NAIAS. I was in charge of concept vehicles at that time, and we built the legendary running concept car. Since that moment, I have always tried to guide our amazing team to remember what Pete Estes said when they announced the new Camaro back in 1966 "The real mission of the Camaro is to be a close companion to its owner, tailored to reflect his or her individual tastes, and at the same time provide exciting personal transportation". I believe our Camaro team has done that successfully with both the 5th Gen and 6th Gen Camaro. I have traveled literally around the world for this car, and have met so many wonderful Camaro owners, whom I refer to as my Camaro family, or Camaro Nation. You have all taken me and my team in for a closer look at what you have done with our car to personalize it, to make it your own. That is my favorite moment, when we have bonded as a Camaro family. This last week has definitely been an emotional one for me, with a lot of ups and downs. I will spend some time with you over a few laughs, a few tears, rest up over the holidays, but then I am going to come back in January in my new role, swinging harder than ever. As far as the Camaro? We aren't done yet. The best performance team in the business has more to show you, as you will see in the near future. The best thing you can do is continue to spread the word on what a great car it is, continue to grow Camaro Nation, and continue to support the Camaro team. With regard to my new role, I am honored and proud that I am part of GM's vision for the future, and my contributions are recognized as necessary to help get there, and forever grateful to our visionary leaders Mary Barra and Mark Reuss for my opportunities past and future. I'm proud to say #IworkforGM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:01 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post

Hybrid Camaro? Probably. Doesnít mean there wonít be an SS. Or a 1LE. Or a ZL1.
Hereís what I know for sure,
Going back to the glory days of the hot rod, the 60ís and early 70ís
I NEVER expected to see a stock 650 bhp monster that handles like the ZL1 or the 1LE ever produced, especially on the Camaro platform!

Nobody goes backwards in business purposely , thatís a receipe for disaster.
Iím expecting exceptional things for the Camaro and Corvettes futures.

Technology will just make things better

Although iím sad to see Al leave the Camaro team, I wish him luck in his new venture, and give him many thanks for the direction and level he helped bring the Camaro team too.

As the Savagegeese video and the goonzsquad guys say,
This thing is a beast.

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Old 12-08-2018, 11:26 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by 2SSRS@Gen5diy View Post
Why don't you tell them about battery loss, as in loss in range over time, you have it now, how will that be dealt with? ( volt went from max range, after 1 year that drops X%) so now every 2-3 year new battery's, is that covered by GM warranty ?
The Volt we have now will hit 36k before Christmas. Can still cross 60 miles in warm weather and 45 miles in cold weather. So I would say 0% degradation in almost 3 years. Batteries are covered for 8 years warranty. Not at all worried about the battery.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:48 AM   #84
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The Volt we have now will hit 36k before Christmas. Can still cross 60 miles in warm weather and 45 miles in cold weather. So I would say 0% degradation in almost 3 years. Batteries are covered for 8 years warranty. Not at all worried about the battery.
You also have to keep in mind that GM thermally maintains the battery in the Volt/Bolt. Something not everyone does.

Further, GM has always been very conservative in the amount of discharge permitted in use. Yep you can take it pretty low and electrons start doing funky things. The earliest Volts, GM was maintain charge and discharge at very conservative levels protecting the battery.

Volt has been out now for what, 7 years? I haven't heard anyone complaining on line or owners that I know that the battery life has degraded to the point where it impacts their normal use. Not like they are suddenly using the ICE to get around.
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