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Old 03-27-2023, 03:12 PM   #1
DPE
 
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Anyone bother tracking on regular SS brakes?

I have a 1SS coming soon, and will likely just upgrade to the 1LE brakes in front as I'm sure I'll need them, but curious as to whether anyone is tracking regularly on the stock SS brakes? I'd of course upgrade fluid and pads and remove the backing plates up front, but didn't know if that would be worth it if they're just going to be trashed anyway? Lots of variables, I know, just curious as to any experience folks have had with them.

In tracking S197 Mustangs, the stock 14" Brembo package with good pads and fluid and ducts was passable, but generally not ideal. Dust seals were usually melted pretty quickly and pad life was marginal. Didn't know if the same could be expected in this application given the similar weight/power/etc. I wouldn't be running super sticky tires; 200TW at the most. Typically run in advanced groups and have instructed before, but no danger of me turning pro.
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Old 03-27-2023, 06:30 PM   #2
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I can't tell you from experience, as I'm already tracking the larger front calipers that you are contemplating (along with the Ferodo pads, SRF fluid, and SC3 tires) as part of the 1LE package. All works well and I'm experiencing no pad fade or soft pedal for 2 HPDE seasons.

I would say though that if you are going to have a chance of the SS stock calipers being sufficient, you probably should have stock rubber (or similar TW) on the wheels. Stricker tires will inevitably lead to higher exit speeds, more speed and momentum at the end of following straights (especially if you are trying to brake later), and more punishment on the OEM pads. Upgrade the pads, and you'll generate more heat, which are going to punish the caliper seals.

But if you are willing to give the OEMs a try (what have you got to lose?), be sure to remove the tire aero guards, large rotor splash shields (in favor of the smaller ones), and install the deflectors that come with the car as per the GM track prep guide. And of course better brake fluid.
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Old 03-27-2023, 10:10 PM   #3
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I'm tracking a 1SS, mostly TNIA and some time trials. About 15 track days in all. My car has about 14,000 miles on it.

Deflectors are installed, backing plates removed. I run Castrol SRF fluid and I also run a set of 1LE wheels and tires.

My front pads are factory original although they won't last through this season. I'm on my 3rd (or maybe 4th) set of front rotors. Rears are all factory original.

The front rotors are the weak point, they just don't take the heat. But, I was buying them from GM Parts Direct for $85 each so who cares, they're almost disposable at that price. The price has gone up though so maybe I'll look for a better aftermarket rotor this year.

I have no brake issues at all. Even when the front rotors are cooked, I can still dive into a corner at 130+ with no fade or anything.
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Old 03-28-2023, 12:08 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. I was thinking fluid of course but assumed I'd need pads as well. Andy, that's impressive that the car works that well on OEM pads? What happens to the rotors? Do they just eventually crack? Pretty cheap consumable; wouldn't bother me to replace a set or two before upgrading. I may even run stock tires for a while just to use them; bought a square Apex setup during their recent sale, but don't have tires yet.



Ordinarily I'd just get the bigger brakes before or right after my car shows up (hopefully in the next month or two), but between the expected expense of getting a car, a large tax bill and an some unexpected medical bills (such are having your kids play sports), I should probably go easy on the bank account for a bit. If the car can work on mostly OEM parts, perhaps I'll start there after all.



Just have bad memories; got a Civic Type R four years ago (that I just sold), and my first track day was cut rather short when the OEM tires were chunking out the shoulders on the second session. Awesome car in a lot of ways and I'll miss it, but between crap factory tires on too-large wheels, the motor getting hot and pulling power unless it's below 60, and the annihilation of rear brake pads due to mostly non-defeatable torque vectoring, the R doesn't mean 'Race' apparently. Nurburgring time notwithstanding. At least the front brakes were mostly solid, though of course they had to use drilled rotors to look cool which just means you get to replace them due to cracking between the holes on a fairly regular basis.
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Old 03-28-2023, 12:17 AM   #5
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As a point of comparison, using stock pads on the 1LE front rotors, I was able to get about 15 track days out of 1 set of rotors, with front pad change 1/2 way through. The rotors were getting heat checked and a few spots where I could catch a finger nail, but nothing out to either edge so I probably could have done a few more days on them if I really wanted to push my luck.

Rear pads lasted 2 seasons and still have about 1-2 track days left in them. Rear rotors don't even have any checking yet.

The front pads (and rears to a lesser extent) do tend to taper, so I rotate them after each weekend to try to even the wear out (plus it's a good way to monitor remaining pad life to, as you can't see the more tapered end with the wheels on the car).
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Old 03-28-2023, 01:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy3213 View Post
I'm tracking a 1SS, mostly TNIA and some time trials. About 15 track days in all. My car has about 14,000 miles on it.

Deflectors are installed, backing plates removed. I run Castrol SRF fluid and I also run a set of 1LE wheels and tires.

My front pads are factory original although they won't last through this season. I'm on my 3rd (or maybe 4th) set of front rotors. Rears are all factory original.

The front rotors are the weak point, they just don't take the heat. But, I was buying them from GM Parts Direct for $85 each so who cares, they're almost disposable at that price. The price has gone up though so maybe I'll look for a better aftermarket rotor this year.

I have no brake issues at all. Even when the front rotors are cooked, I can still dive into a corner at 130+ with no fade or anything.
Could you provide more details please on what the issue is that you’re having with the front rotors? Are you getting shaking in your steering wheel when braking during the track days?
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Old 03-28-2023, 01:21 PM   #7
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i did for a year or two until i got more serious with my tracking my ss


i did oem rotors and powerstop track day pads with motul 660 fluid and goodridge lines it was a nice setup but alot of dust



wanted a 1le/zl1 kit but could never find anything at a good price so decided to go with the zzp bkk



ctsv 2 calipers with oem 1le rotors and ss lines and it was a huge upgrade


https://zzperformance.com/collection...-big-brake-kit
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Old 03-28-2023, 01:50 PM   #8
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Could you provide more details please on what the issue is that you’re having with the front rotors? Are you getting shaking in your steering wheel when braking during the track days?

They get warped, steering wheel pulses. The rotors turn blue in the middle.
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Old 03-28-2023, 05:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by andy3213 View Post
They get warped, steering wheel pulses. The rotors turn blue in the middle.
Are the rotors warped, or do they have pad deposits?
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Old 03-28-2023, 07:17 PM   #10
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Are the rotors warped, or do they have pad deposits?
Pad deposits? Not sure. They just get thermally damaged, heated to the point that they are no longer stay true when they're hot.

Once they cool down, they feel fine. I can drive on them for the next few weeks or so at normal roadway speeds and not feel anything.

I think a 1LE brake upgrade is close to $3000. I can buy a lot of replacement steel rotors for that price.

I'm just there to have fun. I'm not chasing lap times or personal best (I just like to chase down faster cars) The 1SS is the biggest bang for the buck you can get.
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Old 03-29-2023, 08:44 AM   #11
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From what I understand it's almost always pad deposits (pads get too hot and deposit material unevenly onto the rotors; rotors themselves aren't actually warping), but I've had that same thing on other cars where they get to vibrating under hard use and then go back to normal once they cool off. Anyway, good to know they remain functional, even if one has to buy a few rotors.

1LE brake upgrade is about $2500 if you shop around. Saw the ZZP one, but my car is coming with red calipers which would look a little strange having silver up front and red in back. For the $500 difference, I'd probably just get the 1LE kit. Or possibly neither and just run it mostly stock this year, as is the point of starting this thread.

Camarolina, what Ferodo pads are you running? And why not just stick with the OEM pads? Not suggesting I think you should have, just curious why the change as it sounds like the OEMs did reasonably well. And curious if you would stick with Ferodo. A friend ran DS2500s on a Cayman S and likes them pretty well as a dual-purpose pad, but I've never tried them.
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Old 03-29-2023, 10:13 AM   #12
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you can just buy the silver ones and paint them i painted my rear calipers to match took me about 30 minutes...zzp bbk was one of the best things i ever did to my car along with my full mcs coilover kit
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Old 03-29-2023, 08:42 PM   #13
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Honestly, you should be fine with the stock Brembos.
I tracked my V6 with single-piston brakes all around paired with EBC Bluestuff pads. They held well enough for 20 minute sessions in Southern California heat, albeit they wore out fast.
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Old 03-30-2023, 12:23 AM   #14
N Camarolina

 
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Camarolina, what Ferodo pads are you running? And why not just stick with the OEM pads? Not suggesting I think you should have, just curious why the change as it sounds like the OEMs did reasonably well. And curious if you would stick with Ferodo. A friend ran DS2500s on a Cayman S and likes them pretty well as a dual-purpose pad, but I've never tried them.
I'm using the OEM SS 1LE pads, which are Ferodo HP1000 (essentially the same as the DS2500), essentially a hybrid road pad/track pad. They get rebranded as ACDelco. Like fellow forum member TrackClub, I haven't found a reason yet to go to a more aggressive race pad. The initial bite and pedal firmness are sufficient for my track needs, and I like the somewhat longer pedal travel as I think it makes trail braking easier.

I'm sure that a more aggressive pad would provide even stronger braking, but it will also increase caliper temps, wear on the seals, and rotor wear. The increased consumables cost just isn't worth the lap time improvement to me.
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