[ember1205]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

This is one of those Pandora's box discussions... most people say the factory nav is useless and why would anyone pay extra when they can just use AA, CarPlay and Waze.

Fair enough.

However, the factory navigation is very capable and works perfectly in my experience, it is integrated with both the HUD and the gauge cluster (it displays hints, turns, distances and even speed limits in the cluster, continuously and updating in real time, which is super useful), and is always available, does not require fumbling with a phone and a cord all the time. For these reasons alone I would still opt for it if I bought the car today.

(The one problem that does exist with factory nav is that GM are fleecing people by not including maps in the normal over-the-air update regimen, instead they want to charge ~$100 every year for a single annual map update, typical corporate greed. BMW were pulling a similar or even worse stunt until recently. All in all, to me this isn't enough to offset the positives I listed above.)

I agree that the integration of the factory navigation into the HUD makes for a nice experience. However, it also has a hard time actually delivering on the "improvement".

First, the included navigation doesn't have real-time traffic and alerts like Waze or Google Maps. The automatic rerouting around problem areas on factory systems lags behind significantly compared to what's delivered on your smartphone almost instantly.

Second, as you mentioned, you have to pay for map updates. Overall, updates really shouldn't be needed as the percentage of changes to roads is extremely small in the grand scheme. Still, for those that live or often drive in an area that's being re-configured or actively (recently) developed, getting updates to the maps can be extremely important.

Third, the HUD itself is extremely difficult to see in the daytime if you wear polarized sunglasses. In order to see the HUD with my glasses on, I have to tilt my head hard to the right. I look like a puppy that was just asked if he wanted to go for a ride.

Fourth, turn-by-turn from a smartphone works every bit as well through the car audio as the integrated navigation does.

Yes, HUD integration has appeal and will work well for some. I love having the HUD, but find it is really only useful for me when the sun goes down (and I don't drive it a lot at night because of the bugs).

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

Wow $51K+ for a non ZlL1 camaro is brutal. Might as well look for a few more bucks and go for a C8...

Definitely don't see that as a reason to spend $10k more for the car itself, get hit with luxury taxes, pay more in property/excise tax, pay higher insurance, wait forever to get one, and deal with the lower entry/exit of the C8. Not to mention put up with all of the little issues that come with owning a first year car.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

Wow $51K+ for a non ZlL1 camaro is brutal. Might as well look for a few more bucks and go for a C8...

Been a while since you've seen 1LE prices?

[LT1ornothing]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Been a while since you've seen 1LE prices?

Yes actually, personally I wouldn't touch a 1LE in the $40K range, let alone $50K, the car just ain't worth it in my eyes, I'd be looking at a C7 grand sport or a ZL1 camaro if I'm in the $50K range, hell even a C7 Z06.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

Yes actually, personally I wouldn't touch a 1LE in the $40K range, let alone $50K, the car just ain't worth it in my eyes, I'd be looking at a C7 grand sport or a ZL1 camaro if I'm in the $50K range, hell even a C7 Z06.

Clearly, you're only looking at cars in the used markets because the ZL1 price new is way more than "the $50K range."

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

Yes actually, personally I wouldn't touch a 1LE in the $40K range, let alone $50K, the car just ain't worth it in my eyes, I'd be looking at a C7 grand sport or a ZL1 camaro if I'm in the $50K range, hell even a C7 Z06.

First, I bet there is room to negotiate on a $50K 2SS1LE. It should easily end up in the $40's just comes down to what you want and like in terms of features.

Second you are now comparing used Corvette pricing to new Camaro pricing. Very different. IF you price up a C8 with Z51, magnetic ride, and 2LT package (NAV, Bose, etc, similar to a 2SS) you are in the mid to high $70K range.

Used C7 prices have skyrocketed if you want a low mileage manual with at least 2LT trim package. I shopped all around New England there are very few GS and Z06 manuals with low mileage and people want top dollar. High $50 to high $60K range and many of those are several years old.

You can buy used 1LE/2LE under $40K all day long. Brand new, you might be hard pressed to find one under $40K. There is such little inventory and few incentives right now due to Covid, dealers are not really obligated to give them away. I was able to buy a 2020 SS1LE in the color I wanted for $43K and change out the door recently, but I had to buy out of state and it took me weeks of searching and negotiating. There are next to none out there.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Jsreo

Does factory nav warn you about cops or re-route you based on real time traffic conditions like Waze does?

I have factory nav but have never used it due to the aforementioned reasons

I have a radar detector to warn about potential problems, which is superior to any crowdsourced "info". Real time traffic based rerouting is supported, although I'll definitely give you that its coverage is nowhere near that of Waze.

Originally Posted by ember1205

I agree that the integration of the factory navigation into the HUD makes for a nice experience. However, it also has a hard time actually delivering on the "improvement".

First, the included navigation doesn't have real-time traffic and alerts like Waze or Google Maps. The automatic rerouting around problem areas on factory systems lags behind significantly compared to what's delivered on your smartphone almost instantly.

Second, as you mentioned, you have to pay for map updates. Overall, updates really shouldn't be needed as the percentage of changes to roads is extremely small in the grand scheme. Still, for those that live or often drive in an area that's being re-configured or actively (recently) developed, getting updates to the maps can be extremely important.

Third, the HUD itself is extremely difficult to see in the daytime if you wear polarized sunglasses. In order to see the HUD with my glasses on, I have to tilt my head hard to the right. I look like a puppy that was just asked if he wanted to go for a ride.

Fourth, turn-by-turn from a smartphone works every bit as well through the car audio as the integrated navigation does.

Yes, HUD integration has appeal and will work well for some. I love having the HUD, but find it is really only useful for me when the sun goes down (and I don't drive it a lot at night because of the bugs).

Well, HUD readability with polarized sunglasses is a little bit of a stretch to bring into a factory nav discussion... I understand that it's a difficulty, but the cluster can display the same information with the factory nav. Also, one needs to acknowledge how incredibly useful is the always present speed limit display in the gauge cluster, it's a small but very significant feature. Finally, there is the subjective appeal of AA or CarPlay interface, or, in my case, lack thereof.

Just to make things clear, I'm not dissing any of the smartphone based navigation and routing options, they are excellent and in several ways superior to the rarely updated factory navigation. All I'm saying is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution in this area either, and IMO it's best to offer all the information to people so they can make a decision that's best for them on their own.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I have a radar detector to warn about potential problems, which is superior to any crowdsourced "info". Real time traffic based rerouting is supported, although I'll definitely give you that its coverage is nowhere near that of Waze.

Just to make things clear, I'm not dissing any of the smartphone based navigation and routing options, they are excellent and in several ways superior to the rarely updated factory navigation. All I'm saying is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution in this area either, and it's best to offer all the information to people so they can make their own decisions.

I gave up on radar detectors 20 years ago. Laser is too prevalent, and all the detector tells you is "you've been caught." I've been stopped for speeding twice in that timeframe AFTER I stopped using them, and was let go with a verbal warning both times. I still believe that I would have been ticketed in both situations if I had been using a detector.

[LT4Greg]

My thinking on this particular 2SS 1LE is that it’s a good deal and the Op is interested so why pass up on buying it because of a $495 option. Would he use the upgraded system and Nav or if he doesn’t use the Nav feature, who cares. Some of the replies seem to say folks wouldn’t buy it because of the extra $495 optional Bose/Nav. I haven’t spent the extra $100 or more to update the Navigation in my ZL1 because it works as is now and I do have my cell that I can use if the system goes down in the car. I definitely wouldn’t let that Camaro get away because of an $495 option if the Op really wants this Camaro!

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Well, HUD readability with polarized sunglasses is a little bit of a stretch to bring into a factory nav discussion... I understand that it's a difficulty, but the cluster can display the same information with the factory nav. Also, one needs to acknowledge how incredibly useful is the always present speed limit display in the gauge cluster, it's a small but very significant feature. Finally, there is the subjective appeal of AA or CarPlay interface, or, in my case, lack thereof.

If the advantages of the integration make sense to share, so do the disadvantages. That's why I mentioned it.

I absolutely appreciate the HUD showing me the speedo and also the track information for the audio (since that's typically not shown on the screen because I have it in AA mode). But, it's not terribly useful during the day because of the polarized sunglasses. I am still looking to see if I can find a decent pair of glasses that are heavily tinted and NOT polarized...

[LT4Greg]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Been a while since you've seen 1LE prices?

Agree with this especially new 1LEs!

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

Yes actually, personally I wouldn't touch a 1LE in the $40K range, let alone $50K, the car just ain't worth it in my eyes, I'd be looking at a C7 grand sport or a ZL1 camaro if I'm in the $50K range, hell even a C7 Z06.

You're nuts, $50k is reasonable for what's included. Option a C8 the same way and you're paying ~$30k more. ZL1 aren't that close either and not everyone wants the extra 150 hp and 200 lbs of weight.

2SS 1LE is a great car much more suited to DD use vs the Vettes.

[LT4Greg]

Wonder why we haven’t heard anything more from the Op except for his original post and 1 reply!

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

You're nuts, $50k is reasonable for what's included. Option a C8 the same way and you're paying ~$30k more. ZL1 aren't that close either and not everyone wants the extra 150 hp and 200 lbs of weight.

2SS 1LE is a great car much more suited to DD use vs the Vettes.

I owed a 2016 C7 Z51 with magnetic ride control. It was a fun car and I enjoyed it, but my SS1LE is just as engaging to drive, and in many ways I find the Alpha platform superior. The Tremec 6 speed in the Camaro is much smoother and refined than the Tremec 7 speed in the C7. Not as much road noise. Backseat when I need it with my kids. And you get a lot more for your money.

[LT1ornothing]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

You're nuts, $50k is reasonable for what's included. Option a C8 the same way and you're paying ~$30k more. ZL1 aren't that close either and not everyone wants the extra 150 hp and 200 lbs of weight.

2SS 1LE is a great car much more suited to DD use vs the Vettes.

I guess, I just don't value options the same way you guys do. A new NA V8 camaro is only worth about $30K to me regardless of whether it is stripped of options or a loaded 2SS with all the options checked. I came across several new C7s in the mid to upper $40K earlier this year when I was camaro shopping. Camaro might be a tad more practical and easier to get in and out of everyday, but now we're just splitting hairs. Not knocking on anyone's preferences, just personally find it ludicrous to pay what those options are priced at, only see real value on the 1LE package, everything other option is way overpriced.