[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

https://www.chevrolet.com.br/picapes...vrolet-montana


Build this thing in Mexico or something, slap an S-10 badge on, sell it here.

Agreed. Just look at the Maverick. That thing is going to be in a constant state of "sold out" for the next few years or longer. GM has got be looking hard at that segment.

My guess is this truck being meant only for the South American market means it's not going to be "fit" for the American buyer for whatever reason(s) and would require considerable changes. Also, there is no mention of a hybrid powertrain, which the Maverick offers and is a large part of why it is so appealing to many buyers.

Hopefully it will look better once fully revealed, but with the camo it look a bit odd in some of it's proportions.

MT article from a few months ago:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...averick-rival/

Here one with some cladding on it:
https://pickuptrucksus.com/2023-chevy-montana/

[snizzle]

And remember, the import tax would mean this offering would be more expensive for less content, and no hybrid as you mentioned. I don't see a scenario where it's competitive.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Agreed. Just look at the Maverick. That thing is going to be in a constant state of "sold out" for the next few years or longer. GM has got be looking hard at that segment.

My guess is this truck being meant only for the South American market means it's not going to be "fit" for the American buyer for whatever reason(s) and would require considerable changes. Also, there is no mention of a hybrid powertrain, which the Maverick offers and is a large part of why it is so appealing to many buyers.

Hopefully it will look better once fully revealed, but with the camo it look a bit odd in some of it's proportions.

MT article from a few months ago:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...averick-rival/

Here one with some cladding on it:
https://pickuptrucksus.com/2023-chevy-montana/

Yeah Ford really seems to have hit a homerun with the Maverick, I see them everywhere. have to imagine GM would want a slice of that market

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah Ford really seems to have hit a homerun with the Maverick, I see them everywhere. have to imagine GM would want a slice of that market

I hope the Maverick is the one vehicle that forces GM to reconsider it's stance on hybrids and dust off the Voltec powertrain. Imagine an S10 with a 50 mile plugin range. I think more likely is a full EV that'll arrive in 4-5 years though at best.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I hope the Maverick is the one vehicle that forces GM to reconsider it's stance on hybrids and dust off the Voltec powertrain. Imagine an S10 with a 50 mile plugin range. I think more likely is a full EV that'll arrive in 4-5 years though at best.

Yes full EV more likely if you listen to what GM is saying.

But I'm with you on hybrids. One example: Toyota. I actually like the fact that they aren't throwing all their eggs into the full EV basket, and are putting out vehicles for the buyers that don't want to, or just can't go full EV. That Toyota RAV4 Prime seems to be very popular from what I've seen. GM has nothing to compete with that.

Voltec was great. A version with a bit more range would be perfect. Do all or most of your daily driving in EV mode. Want to go on a trip? Then use some gas and have no worries at all about charging. GM says there's no reason to spend money on Hybrids when the market is going full EV. Not sure I agree, but that's just little ole me saying that. I think the GM EV platform is likely the best EV platform there is. Heck even Honda is going to use it. But I'd buy a Blazer built on Voltec before I'd buy a Blazer EV.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Yes full EV more likely if you listen to what GM is saying.

But I'm with you on hybrids. One example: Toyota. I actually like the fact that they aren't throwing all their eggs into the full EV basket, and are putting out vehicles for the buyers that don't want to, or just can't go full EV. That Toyota RAV4 Prime seems to be very popular from what I've seen. GM has nothing to compete with that.

That's because Toyota put all their eggs into the hybrid basket years ago and got caught with their pants down for full EVs. It's not a coincidence that they've taken a stance against full EV adoption until very recently when they were able to throw together a few mediocre EVs really quickly.


Basically hybrids is all they have and all they know. It might help them in the short term but in the long term, everyone else has already outpaced Toyota, and learning from history with GM, that's a dangerous position to be in. The other thing: the auto industry is cyclical, what's cool and trendy with buyers today won't be for their kids. Gen Zers see Toyotas as boring boomer-mobiles their grandparents swear by. Again, a dangerous position to be in without any real innovative products.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by snizzle

And remember, the import tax would mean this offering would be more expensive for less content, and no hybrid as you mentioned. I don't see a scenario where it's competitive.

If GM builds it in Mexico it would avoid the chicken tax. In addition, considering GM is able to offer literally every trim for Trax under $25k, I'd guess they'd be able to do something similar for Montana.


The real question is if it actually is on GEM and how much it would take to get a GEM vehicle adapted for the NA market.

[genxer]

Might as well burn the El Camino name on it. The pool for Maverick "trucks" has to be very shallow. GM can't hype up bs as effectively as Ford.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

If GM builds it in Mexico it would avoid the chicken tax. In addition, considering GM is able to offer literally every trim for Trax under $25k, I'd guess they'd be able to do something similar for Montana.

The real question is if it actually is on GEM and how much it would take to get a GEM vehicle adapted for the NA market.

What makes you think it's not on GEM?

Significant capital cost to build it in Mexico alone, not to mention to bring it up to US spec. It's a low profit margin vehicle already to take a chance on it. It could happen, it's just unlikely. The Trax is their entry for the Maverick price range.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by snizzle

What makes you think it's not on GEM?

Significant capital cost to build it in Mexico alone, not to mention to bring it up to US spec. It's a low profit margin vehicle already to take a chance on it. It could happen, it's just unlikely. The Trax is their entry for the Maverick price range.

Yeah and GM thinks that everyone only wants SUVs. That's why they offer 32 of them.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

…
But I'm with you on hybrids. One example: Toyota. I actually like the fact that they aren't throwing all their eggs into the full EV basket, and are putting out vehicles for the buyers that don't want to, or just can't go full EV. That Toyota RAV4 Prime seems to be very popular from what I've seen. GM has nothing to compete with that.

...

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

That's because Toyota put all their eggs into the hybrid basket years ago and got caught with their pants down for full EVs. It's not a coincidence that they've taken a stance against full EV adoption until very recently when they were able to throw together a few mediocre EVs really quickly.


Basically hybrids is all they have and all they know. It might help them in the short term but in the long term, everyone else has already outpaced Toyota, and learning from history with GM, that's a dangerous position to be in. The other thing: the auto industry is cyclical, what's cool and trendy with buyers today won't be for their kids. Gen Zers see Toyotas as boring boomer-mobiles their grandparents swear by. Again, a dangerous position to be in without any real innovative products.

To add to Fenwick’s expert analysis of this, more and more news stories like this are coming to press… https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyo...s-akio-toyoda/

The forecasting / data analysis / automotive consulting company I work for does a lot of analysis of brand loyalty, second choice vehicles, and vehicles conquested. Most Toyota hybrid vehicle owners that don’t return to Toyota go to electric vehicles. Obviously primarily Tesla, but with Mach E, Bolt EV and EUV, and multiple Hyundai Kia EVs coming to market at affordable prices, Toyota is starting to see more rapid defection rates. Combine that with 2035 regulations coming in multiple states, starting with Toyota’s primary market in California and the handwriting is on the wall. Toyota needs very competitive EVs to stay relevant beyond the next decade.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

If GM builds it in Mexico it would avoid the chicken tax. In addition, considering GM is able to offer literally every trim for Trax under $25k, I'd guess they'd be able to do something similar for Montana.


The real question is if it actually is on GEM and how much it would take to get a GEM vehicle adapted for the NA market.

I think the issue with Trax is that it imports as a car, not a truck. Cars aren’t subject to the chicken tax. The industry has gone full circle from getting vehicles like PR Cruiser and HHR classified as trucks to getting vehicles like Trax classified as cars.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think the issue with Trax is that it imports as a car, not a truck. Cars aren’t subject to the chicken tax. The industry has gone full circle from getting vehicles like PR Cruiser and HHR classified as trucks to getting vehicles like Trax classified as cars.

It imports as a car, does it count toward cafe as a car or light truck? It seems against trend to skew over the line to a tougher cafe regulation segment.

"what's cool and trendy with buyers today won't be for their kids. Gen Zers see Toyotas as boring boomer-mobiles their grandparents swear by"

That could be a bit of sensibility projecting. Does the new younger crowd have the same distaste for their predecessors?

[KMPrenger]

Next generation ICE Equinox on the way.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/11...-way-for-2024/

I have to admit I was a bit surprised by this. I thought that both the Equinox and the Blazer were going full EV only, and the current models would continue on for as long as GM deemed fit, and then die a slow painful death lol. (OK...maybe a little exaggeration there). I also figured the nice new Trax would be the ICE equinox replacement. It seemed like the right fit.

Now I don't know why they introduced a nicer, seemingly large Trax if another Equinox with an ICE engine is coming.

Could this mean there is a possibility for a next gen ICE Blazer? If so, please make it look as close to the EV version as possible!