[95 imp]

I'm going to throw my .02 in on this....

I've been lurking/searching the web for about a week now because I decided I wanted a camaro.
First, this current crop of F-body's are really, REALLY, FAT GIRLS! And I mean FAT!
Granted, they can scoot pretty good (I rented a drop top 2SS for a week and drove it like a rental car should be driven ) But heavy Chevy all the way.


My 95 Impala SS weighs in @ 43xx #'s and these fat azz biatches are in the same neighborhood as that 4 door FULL size (5 in the front and two in the trunk) car. And, before you guys start laughing about the irony: 1) She is big. But you KNOW this going in. Camaro's? not so much. 2) In her day, (packing the LT-1 mill) she could easily embarrass the fox bodies.

Any way, back to the rant, I stopped by the dealer to see a sample of the shock color and check out if I could order a sweetheart that had visited weight watchers, jenny craig, and was currently on the atkins diet when I was ready to buy. Either a ZL1 or a 1SS (which the floor model weighed 45xx)

Dude chuckled and basically said "We only deal with FAT AZZ CHICKS here". "There is no way to get liposuction". DAMN! #$@^@$!*

So, low and behold, the heavens open, and descending from on high is the 1LT/LT1.
Just like the COPO cars from the 60's, and as others have said, de-badged, this car would be a hunter/killer in grandma's bathrobe.

I'm guessing she weighs in at 3500-3700 lbs. and 455 wild horses under the hood.
Get the M6, a PD + exhaust, some 18" DR's and....

DADDY IS RIDING TO AWESOMEVILLE!

Right out of the box 3700#'s is .7/.8 tenths over the 4500# 1SS.

Put a huffer on, some other mods, and 650 hp later, you are hanging with dodge's little kitty. And your doing it for about the price of a loaded luxobarge 2SS.

So, some one over at Chevrolet FINALLY figured out this hole in the line-up and is getting back to basics using the magic muscle car formula... Big horses in a light car.

ABOUT. FREAKIN. TIME! And, I'm definitely getting one.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

I'm going to throw my .02 in on this....

I've been lurking/searching the web for about a week now because I decided I wanted a camaro.
First, this current crop of F-body's are really, REALLY, FAT GIRLS! And I mean FAT!
Granted, they can scoot pretty good (I rented a drop top 2SS for a week and drove it like a rental car should be driven ) But heavy Chevy all the way.


My 95 Impala SS weighs in @ 43xx #'s and these fat azz biatches are in the same neighborhood as that 4 door FULL size (5 in the front and two in the trunk) car. And, before you guys start laughing about the irony: 1) She is big. But you KNOW this going in. Camaro's? not so much. 2) In her day, (packing the LT-1 mill) she could easily embarrass the fox bodies.

Any way, back to the rant, I stopped by the dealer to see a sample of the shock color and check out if I could order a sweetheart that had visited weight watchers, jenny craig, and was currently on the atkins diet when I was ready to buy. Either a ZL1 or a 1SS (which the floor model weighed 45xx)

Dude chuckled and basically said "We only deal with FAT AZZ CHICKS here". "There is no way to get liposuction". DAMN! #$@^@$!*

So, low and behold, the heavens open, and descending from on high is the 1LT/LT1.
Just like the COPO cars from the 60's, and as others have said, de-badged, this car would be a hunter/killer in grandma's bathrobe.

I'm guessing she weighs in at 3500-3700 lbs. and 455 wild horses under the hood.
Get the M6, a PD + exhaust, some 18" DR's and....

DADDY IS RIDING TO AWESOMEVILLE!

Right out of the box 3700#'s is .7/.8 tenths over the 4500# 1SS.

Put a huffer on, some other mods, and 650 hp later, you are hanging with dodge's little kitty. And your doing it for about the price of a loaded luxobarge 2SS.

So, some one over at Chevrolet FINALLY figured out this hole in the line-up and is getting back to basics using the magic muscle car formula... Big horses in a light car.

ABOUT. FREAKIN. TIME! And, I'm definitely getting one.

First of all, to the forums, Daddy You'll sure love the 6th gen.
Not sure about the "fat azz" comments, though. My "luxobarge" 2SS weighs 3697 pounds, or did while she was stock before mods. Needless to say, she pulls hard. Just saying, your weight numbers would be off even for a Challenger lineup.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Right out of the box 3700#'s is .7/.8 tenths over the 4500# 1SS.

No 6th gen Camaro weighs 4500#.

3600-3700 for the SS and ~3900 for the ZL1

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

No 6th gen Camaro weighs 4500#.

3600-3700 for the SS and ~3900 for the ZL1

LOL. I think that guy had a pretty terrible salesperson or he might have confused the price with the weight. But see a basic V8 version Camaro does have appeal. 95 Imp has the right idea slapping DRs on the back of fastest V8 NA Camaro. Make mine a M6. But what to do about the built in M6 bog. Has that been solved yet?

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

LOL. I think that guy had a pretty terrible salesperson or he might have confused the price with the weight. But see a basic V8 version Camaro does have appeal. 95 Imp has the right idea slapping DRs on the back of fastest V8 NA Camaro. Make mine a M6. But what to do about the built in M6 bog. Has that been solved yet?

I dunno… Maybe he read it wrong, but there was a 2019 crush 1SS coupe on the floor and he said it was a butt hair north of 4500.


When my 94 Caprice 9C1 was still street/strip it was about 4200. That would do mid 12's with 400 whp and a T-56. About the same #'s as the current camaro w/ similar hp. So, hp/weight ratio have to be close.


I can't believe the aftermarket hasn't got a new pumpkin ready to go yet. Or a rebuild/conversion kit. Even a whole unit with a welded gear would be acceptable.

I found was an old thread on a 5K total rear swap. That was it, anywhere. There was something about Richmond coming out with something, but that hasn't happened.


The only thing you can do at this point is play with tire/wheel combos. With 305/30/18's, you should (as I recall) get an effective ratio of 4.10. I haven't checked the cogs in the 6060 vs the 56, but 4.10's and 315/35/17's (have to double check) were pretty good match on the b-body with the M6.


You'd prolly have to go 4.56 (all being equal) for the f-body with stock 20's to shine.

I don't know if you could clear calipers on a 15" rim might work. But, I'd doubt you'd still have enough baloney to hook on the street. The other thing is a 15" tire/wheel combo looking good in a 20" wheel well.


The only reason I can think of why there is a lack of rear end options is lack of production. The Big 3 combined are currently making less units than one did in the 70-90's.


You take the lack of units and sub-divide it by M6 cars, then sub that again into the actual hardcore peeps that would do a gear swap and I think that is the reason. Just not enough demand to warrant the R & D.

Let's face it.... the A10 is an awesome tranny, (I'm a little scared to go up against it with the M6 TBH) and not too many people like to row their cars any more....



And.. thanks for the welcome, junior!

[95 imp]

All righty, I found out what was up. The yo-yo looked at the GVW, not curb weight.


Laststandard was correct.

'19 Zl1 coupe w/ auto weighs in at 3944. Convert comes in at 4148.

SS (doesn't say 1 or 2) is a salami sandwich short of 3700. 'Vert is 3943.

For comparison:
5th gen coupe (sans A/C) 3820
4th gen (V8) ranges from 3211 to 3490 depending on the site reporting. (and maybe a specific trim car or year?)

So they've gained 2-5 hundie over a 4th gen and actually went on a slight diet since the last model.


Not as bad as I thought, not as good as I'd like


No word on the 1LT/LT1 CW yet?

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

I dunno… Maybe he read it wrong, but there was a 2019 crush 1SS coupe on the floor and he said it was a butt hair north of 4500.


When my 94 Caprice 9C1 was still street/strip it was about 4200. That would do mid 12's with 400 whp and a T-56. About the same #'s as the current camaro w/ similar hp. So, hp/weight ratio have to be close.


I can't believe the aftermarket hasn't got a new pumpkin ready to go yet. Or a rebuild/conversion kit. Even a whole unit with a welded gear would be acceptable.

I found was an old thread on a 5K total rear swap. That was it, anywhere. There was something about Richmond coming out with something, but that hasn't happened.


The only thing you can do at this point is play with tire/wheel combos. With 305/30/18's, you should (as I recall) get an effective ratio of 4.10. I haven't checked the cogs in the 6060 vs the 56, but 4.10's and 315/35/17's (have to double check) were pretty good match on the b-body with the M6.


You'd prolly have to go 4.56 (all being equal) for the f-body with stock 20's to shine.

I don't know if you could clear calipers on a 15" rim might work. But, I'd doubt you'd still have enough baloney to hook on the street. The other thing is a 15" tire/wheel combo looking good in a 20" wheel well.


The only reason I can think of why there is a lack of rear end options is lack of production. The Big 3 combined are currently making less units than one did in the 70-90's.


You take the lack of units and sub-divide it by M6 cars, then sub that again into the actual hardcore peeps that would do a gear swap and I think that is the reason. Just not enough demand to warrant the R & D.

Let's face it.... the A10 is an awesome tranny, (I'm a little scared to go up against it with the M6 TBH) and not too many people like to row their cars any more....



And.. thanks for the welcome, junior!

Be aware the M6 has a builtin bog. But it is still more fun than an auto.

[95 imp]

/https://autowise.com/the-2020-chevrolet-camaro-will-literally-shock-you/

The last paragraph is interesting.....

2020 Camaro Weight Loss
The mass carbon fiber supplier Teijin is reported to be tooling for a mass of body panels and structural components. This could mean potentially, hundreds of pounds shed from the previous generation of Camaros. As we learn more, we will report as soon as possible.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Be aware the M6 has a builtin bog. But it is still more fun than an auto.

What's this built in bog? My 18 GT seems like it hesitates in 1st and 2nd gear at low rpm, and dealer told me it's for clutch protection. I have not driven another 18 M6 to see the difference. Is that a similar thing on the Camaro?

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Be aware the M6 has a builtin bog. But it is still more fun than an auto.

My guess is it's the 3.73's. They could use a 4.56 with the 20" rims.

M6? +1 fo' sho'!

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by Deki

What's this built in bog? My 18 GT seems like it hesitates in 1st and 2nd gear at low rpm, and dealer told me it's for clutch protection. I have not driven another 18 M6 to see the difference. Is that a similar thing on the Camaro?

Engine torque management. All them fancy computers managing engine torque output to stop wheelspin and keep driveline components intact. Honestly I've never really noticed it, but this is the first RWD V8 400+hp vehicle I've owned, so it always feels plenty fast to me. My motorcycle is faster.. but completely different feel.

Specific to LT1, could also be the poor tip-in throttle response due to throttle body design. There's some good discussion in the main forum from Soler Performance who looks to have done some significant research and testing for their ported TB's. Not sure if the Coyote suffers from the same issue.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Deki

What's this built in bog? My 18 GT seems like it hesitates in 1st and 2nd gear at low rpm, and dealer told me it's for clutch protection. I have not driven another 18 M6 to see the difference. Is that a similar thing on the Camaro?

I think the M6 SS and all ZL1s are inflicted with the bog. I suppose it's intentional to protect the drive train, especially the silly electronic diff. It is 40 pounds heavier than the old school diff.

The bog happens as you launch the car. Even people watching in the know notice say they see the hesitation. It is very subtle and on the M6 Chevy says the right launch will minimize the bog. This bog is not in the tune.

Of course this explains why 650 HP M6 ZL1s can have trouble getting into the 11s. And why I bought an A10 ZL1. Love driving the car but it is a bit boring to drag race.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I think the M6 SS and all ZL1s are inflicted with the bog. I suppose it's intentional to protect the drive train, especially the silly electronic diff. It is 40 pounds heavier than the old school diff.

You may think it's silly, but the ELSD is great when you're actually turning corners

These cars weren't developed as straight line "1/4 mile at a time" machines.

New proper habitat for Camaro:

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

Engine torque management.

If that's the case, does shutting off the traction control make it go away?


I'm really hating how all the new cars seem to have "someone in Detroit" really driving them. It's kinda like the coach sending in all the plays to the quarterback.


And, again, I have to agree (and disagree lol) with Laststandard.

The camaro has always been known as the "poor man's Corvette". It's been a "dual purpose" (straight and curvy track) car since day 1.