[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ford typically keeps Mustang gens around about 10 years +/-. Given the current gen debuted in 2015, it could simply be a little premature to be printing information about the next gen given how early it is.

GM can do the same with the 6th gen...it's younger by a year than the S550 anyway.

[RageWorx]

I've been following this GT500 big dog mustang and I'm disappointed also by the higher than expected curb weight.

The new 500 will be a monster ... but I don't think it will outrun a RedEye in the 1/4, 1/2, or roll racing and at damn near RedEye weight (someone posted a scale slip around 4320 for a RE) will most likely not out run a ZL1 1LE on a road course (unless all straits lol). Along with the high price tag I'm not sure how this new 500 will do vs the competition in these categories but either way Ford will sell them all so it's a win either way. Plus having the 500 back is awesome no matter what.

I have been trying to not follow the bigger heavier new car platform every time when I try a new car if possible. I've actually found myself wanting smaller/lighter/More nimble car platforms lately as I prefer the driving experience rather than a High HP boat would provide but when I started in the car game all I cared about was power now I want nice vehicle dynamics also.

My 2016 SS A8 ECS Supercharged car has been rock solid love it (Just ordered ARH headers for it ). This car with the Supercharger kit and the other mods I've added weighs in at 3610 at the track (without me in it) and still maintains the lighter more athletic vehicle dynamics I want even after adding weight with the Supercharger and etc.

I've been looking at other options if I were to sell the 6th gen SS and the current options don't interest me all that much over the SS. For what I do with the car (drag/roll racing and back road corner carving) I've found that a Supercharged lighter SS fits me better than a ZL1 for my purposes (Not knocking the ZL1 at all let's be clear).

Honestly at this point I think I'll just keep the 6th gen SS and keep upgrading it as most of these new options are great and really fast but too Damn big/heavy/ crazy prices for what you get .... no amount of engineering can hide almost 4300 lbs. I'm sure it handles great but you WILL feel the weight (most being in the nose) no matter what and I just don't enjoy that.

Either way I can't wait to see what these new 500s can do but I'll be sitting this one out (Also own an 03 Cobra currently so I'm a Ford guy too). Hate to say it but the new Supra (already out lapping M2 Comps and Porsches lol) is more of what I'm looking for in a new ride and after the dealership markups are gone I can grab one and keep the 6th gen SS.

-Jon

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Robby - how do you like the SS 1LE vs the C7 GS?

I like them both differently, honestly performance wise on the street they are close, haven't tracked either, so I can't tell you about their limits yet (though I would expect the GS to perform better as it post clearly superior lap times) just comparing hooning around and straight line stuff.

If I didn't have both to compare I would have though the "Throttlehouse" video comparing them was b.s. but it's pretty spot on, they feel about the same from a roll but I never really go past 130 where the vettes aero might make it shine idk. From a dig on the streets I do get a better jump on the street from the wider tires and possibly less intrusive torque management on the vette but once they're rolling they feel the same. I have the gm Cai on the 1le and for some reason rip through the gears better which probably helps eliminate the edge the c7 has. I do feel the camaro chassis is superior and more solid feeling but the vettes lower center of mass and weight makes up for that as well as the wider tires, makes me wonder how great a v8 3400 pound alpha platform car would feel. I was surprised at how even they are straight line wise, expected the vette to pull away harder as it does on paper, the corvette feels so grippy though which is saying a lot considering how planted the 1le is. I can kick the tail out a bit on the camaro a little easier when I want to, but again I have to want to do that.

I find myself driving the 1le a lot more, the corvette is actually a very practical 2 seater but I do use the camaro rear seats a lot. Trunks are about even to me because the camaro with the back seats down hold a lot more but the vette is easier to load with the giant hatch back opening. What really separates them is the ground clearance, I drive the shit out of my cars and the camaro just deals with bumps and road inconsistencies better. I hate scrapping around and don't want to **** the vette up, I don't want to mess up the 1le either but it just isn't as fazed by the daily crap roads grind. At the end of the day it bothers me to put dings and scratches on the vette more as it's the more expensive car and should hold value better.

The interior of the vette is clearly nicer (love the hidden gimmicky slide down screen) better materials all around and less cheap plastic, though not really anymore features, but at the same time I like that about the camaro since I don't have to baby it as much and don't feel bad about getting in and out and touching things up (except for the suede wheel and other bits that give me anxiety lol). The info system on the 1le is better imo, as it should be since it's newer. Visibility is fine for both as far as I'm concerned, neither is great but totally livable.

Looks wise I like them both (seems to be a common theme here lol) the corvette is obviously the sexier more exotic looking car, it's more exotic than the camaro but also looks more exotic than it actually is though if that makes sense. The camaro is more of an aggressive in your face masculine look. Where I give the edge to the vette is the Targa top, God I love taking the top off and the way it looks with it off.

Bottom line is they are both awesome cars, the vette gets you some exclusive perks like the Targa top, transaxle, lower more exotic two seater look, nicer materials, and the fact that you'll never see the rental v6/i4 versions on the road (the only thing I actually dislike about the camaro), but you pay for those perks. Sure the z06 is faster but the GS is the best NA corvette there is and bats way above it's weight class when you compare the lap times it's capable of putting up as well as being able to run hard all day and stay in control without having to be Randy Pobst to tame it. In my opinion the 1le is the best performance car bargain there is especially when you get heavy discounts like I got on mine. Lt1, tremec tranny, esld, revmatch, HUD, mag ride, with meaty wheels and tires it's like all the corvette go fast features without the frills. I always loved vettes and love the GS as much as I should, I always liked camaros and love the 1le way more than I thought I would.

[NW-99SS]

Thanks Robby, great review. Our next car will either be a C7 or a 6th gen - so I like hearing owner reviews.

I've been in a ZL1 1LE, and driven a C7 Z06 so I am familiar with both platforms (actually perform mods on my friend's Z06 for him).

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Thanks Robby, great review. Our next car will either be a C7 or a 6th gen - so I like hearing owner reviews.

I've been in a ZL1 1LE, and driven a C7 Z06 so I am familiar with both platforms (actually perform mods on my friend's Z06 for him).

No problem man, can't go wrong either way. Both have their advantages but most importantly are amazing all around sports cars.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Not true. Someone who makes "good" money can't afford a Huracan/720S/911 Turbo S/GT3/GT2/Ferrari 488/812 Superfast/loaded ZR1, etc. But someone who makes good money can possibly afford a GT500/Hellcat/ZL1. (The Huracan Performante is my "dream" car, btw) When in automotive history could you buy a car with 760 factory hp for $74k (or the RE for similar price)? Never. With the Hellcat, when it came out, when before that could you buy a car with over 700 hp for whatever it cost when it came out? Before the 13/14 GT500, when could you buy a car with 662 hp for that price? They aren't necessarily "cheap" or low prices, but on a dollars per hp, they are a bargain compared to anytime in history. Heck, even the Corvette never had more than 650 hp until the ZR1 this year (but it starts at like $125k). The fact someone can get a base Z06 that screams in a straight line and around a track for $81k is great.

You keep talking about markups (which do suck). But, a product is worth what someone will pay for it, not necessarily what the manufacturer sets the price at. If people will pay a $10k markup, then the car is worth that much regardless if it will be outperformed on a track or drag strip (i.e., ZLE vs GT350R). I don't necessarily like it, but that's our economy. Obviously, there are other important items other than all out 'ring times.

Ok and how many 707 HP cars actually existed before the Hellcat came out? How many 662 HP cars existed before the 13-14 GT500? You make it sound like there were lots of these cars out there making those numbers. The GT500 was 550 HP until they upped it to outdo the 580 HP 5th Gen ZL1. And for the record, the Hellcat when it first arrived had steep markups attached to it.

And there you go yet again defending the reason why the GT500 costs what it does. Your only reason for defending it is because I am calling it out. Deep down you know you're disappointed in where the GT500 is starting out at. 90% of the Mustang fans are disappointed in the price AND the weight. And the guys I've seen who were disappointed in it are bigger fanatics than you. The only thing it does is, like I said, keeps you and other regular Joes from attaining one. Whereas us over here can slip into a ZL1 or Z06 for a little more than a SS. But go ahead and keep defending it if you want. You're just making yourself look like the guy who gets gut punched and is hunched over straining but tells every it's ok and he's fine. Yea sure.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok and how many 707 HP cars actually existed before the Hellcat came out? How many 662 HP cars existed before the 13-14 GT500? You make it sound like there were lots of these cars out there making those numbers. The GT500 was 550 HP until they upped it to outdo the 580 HP 5th Gen ZL1. And for the record, the Hellcat when it first arrived had steep markups attached to it.

And there you go yet again defending the reason why the GT500 costs what it does. Your only reason for defending it is because I am calling it out. Deep down you know you're disappointed in where the GT500 is starting out at. 90% of the Mustang fans are disappointed in the price AND the weight. And the guys I've seen who were disappointed in it are bigger fanatics than you. The only thing it does is, like I said, keeps you and other regular Joes from attaining one. Whereas us over here can slip into a ZL1 or Z06 for a little more than a SS. But go ahead and keep defending it if you want. You're just making yourself look like the guy who gets gut punched and is hunched over straining but tells every it's ok and he's fine. Yea sure.

I didn't make it sound like there were many to choose from. I just asked how many you could get for that price. The answer was none. Prior to the Hellcat only a few 700+ hp factory cars existed: La Ferrari, Porsche 918, McLaren P1, Bugatti Veyron, Aventador...and I think that's it. They are all $1/2 million or more (all over $1 million except for the Lamborghini). You had to be a fairly wealthy person to even have the chance of owning one of those cars. A $75k GT500 with 760 hp is certainly far more attainable for many people than any of those cars ever will be. Now we have 700+ hp cars from three American manufacturers, although only Ford and Dodge offer their 700+ hp cars for under $100k.

For the record, I'm disappointed in the weight as I've stated before, and not surprised at the price (except for the CFTP - that was surprising).

You're delusional if you think someone could just "slip into" a Z06 for a "little more" than an SS. The Z06 starts at $81k. SS starts at $39k.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Not true. Someone who makes "good" money can't afford a Huracan/720S/911 Turbo S/GT3/GT2/Ferrari 488/812 Superfast/loaded ZR1, etc. But someone who makes good money can possibly afford a GT500/Hellcat/ZL1. (The Huracan Performante is my "dream" car, btw) When in automotive history could you buy a car with 760 factory hp for $74k (or the RE for similar price)? Never. With the Hellcat, when it came out, when before that could you buy a car with over 700 hp for whatever it cost when it came out? Before the 13/14 GT500, when could you buy a car with 662 hp for that price? They aren't necessarily "cheap" or low prices, but on a dollars per hp, they are a bargain compared to anytime in history. Heck, even the Corvette never had more than 650 hp until the ZR1 this year (but it starts at like $125k). The fact someone can get a base Z06 that screams in a straight line and around a track for $81k is great.

You keep talking about markups (which do suck). But, a product is worth what someone will pay for it, not necessarily what the manufacturer sets the price at. If people will pay a $10k markup, then the car is worth that much regardless if it will be outperformed on a track or drag strip (i.e., ZLE vs GT350R). I don't necessarily like it, but that's our economy. Obviously, there are other important items other than all out 'ring times.

I think it will be a tough sell at 90k+ to get a GT500 when you know the C8 Z06 will embarrassingly outperform it. The 13-14 GT500 sold because 662hp was unheard of. Now 700+ is common. I see Hellcats all over the place. The 500 is supposed to out handle a ZL1 but it needs a speed limiter at speeds my SS can reach. It already gets beat by almost half a second 0-60 by a base C8. We dont know if the 500 will run a 1/4 mile faster than the Redeye since it weighs 4200 pounds.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I think it will be a tough sell at 90k+ to get a GT500 when you know the C8 Z06 will embarrassingly outperform it. The 13-14 GT500 sold because 662hp was unheard of. Now 700+ is common. I see Hellcats all over the place. The 500 is supposed to out handle a ZL1 but it needs a speed limiter at speeds my SS can reach. It already gets beat by almost half a second 0-60 by a base C8. We dont know if the 500 will run a 1/4 mile faster than the Redeye since it weighs 4200 pounds.

I don't disagree with the C8 Z06 sentiment. That's going to be a beast. I very much doubt the base C8 will beat the GT500 to 60 by nearly a half second. Base C8 will likely be in the low 3s, assuming the Z51 is "under 3", which we know means 2.99 seconds (sort of like "under $60k" meant $59,995 and only for the '20 model year). Most likely the GT500 will be in the low 3s on stock tires, and not under 3 due to traction limits with a FE RWD car. The ZL1 is 3.4 seconds 0-60, which we know the GT500 will beat. So most likely 3.2 seconds 0-60, but after 60, vs a C8, it will be all GT500 due to the immense power advantage.

GT500 vs RE will be interesting...the two cars have essentially the same power to weight ratio (GT500 may be a hair better).

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I didn't make it sound like there were many to choose from. I just asked how many you could get for that price. The answer was none. Prior to the Hellcat only a few 700+ hp factory cars existed: La Ferrari, Porsche 918, McLaren P1, Bugatti Veyron, Aventador...and I think that's it. They are all $1/2 million or more (all over $1 million except for the Lamborghini). You had to be a fairly wealthy person to even have the chance of owning one of those cars. A $75k GT500 with 760 hp is certainly far more attainable for many people than any of those cars ever will be. Now we have 700+ hp cars from three American manufacturers, although only Ford and Dodge offer their 700+ hp cars for under $100k.

For the record, I'm disappointed in the weight as I've stated before, and not surprised at the price (except for the CFTP - that was surprising).

You're delusional if you think someone could just "slip into" a Z06 for a "little more" than an SS. The Z06 starts at $81k. SS starts at $39k.

I get your point man, and you are not wrong. It is a great time to be a car guy and there are things to like with what all 3 are offering. You can get sh!t you never could get and shouldn't be able to at their price(on the surface).

A lot of people over here want to like the S550, I almost bought one before the M3 I just sold. They look and sound amazing with a great engine. As a manual only guy they didn't give me many options and they just don't perform like they should, with some exceptions like your GT*, and even then some seem like hodge podge after thoughts to save face(PP2). Then when you want the car that performs like it should with the parts it should, they charge you an arm and a leg for it. The GT350 was SS1LE competition for WAY more $$. 4225 lbs and you want $74K to start?!?!?! Makes me want to scream hahaha. For me at least, a wanna be fan but no enthusiast of 'special', I am just very disappointed in what Ford has done this Gen, and I dont think I am the only one as I read that in some responses to your point being made now.

Ford couldn't manage to make a manual car worth buying for less than GT350 money, that one hurt me hahahaha I just couldn't make it happen this time around and really wanted to.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I don't disagree with the C8 Z06 sentiment. That's going to be a beast. I very much doubt the base C8 will beat the GT500 to 60 by nearly a half second. Base C8 will likely be in the low 3s, assuming the Z51 is "under 3", which we know means 2.99 seconds (sort of like "under $60k" meant $59,995 and only for the '20 model year). Most likely the GT500 will be in the low 3s on stock tires, and not under 3 due to traction limits with a FE RWD car. The ZL1 is 3.4 seconds 0-60, which we know the GT500 will beat. So most likely 3.2 seconds 0-60, but after 60, vs a C8, it will be all GT500 due to the immense power advantage.

GT500 vs RE will be interesting...the two cars have essentially the same power to weight ratio (GT500 may be a hair better).

There are going to be some amazing battles between these 2.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I get your point man, and you are not wrong. It is a great time to be a car guy and there are things to like with what all 3 are offering. You can get sh!t you never could get and shouldn't be able to at their price(on the surface).

A lot of people over here want to like the S550, I almost bought one before the M3 I just sold. They look and sound amazing with a great engine. As a manual only guy they didn't give me many options and they just don't perform like they should, with some exceptions like your GT*, and even then some seem like hodge podge after thoughts to save face(PP2). Then when you want the car that performs like it should with the parts it should, they charge you an arm and a leg for it. The GT350 was SS1LE competition for WAY more $$. 4225 lbs and you want $74K to start?!?!?! Makes me want to scream hahaha. For me at least, a wanna be fan but no enthusiast of 'special', I am just very disappointed in what Ford has done this Gen, and I dont think I am the only one as I read that in some responses to your point being made now.

Ford couldn't manage to make a manual car worth buying for less than GT350 money, that one hurt me hahahaha I just couldn't make it happen this time around and really wanted to.

Yeah, the S550 is by no means perfect. With the '18+ GT M6 Ford messed up the gear ratio selections. 1st starts out really low, but by 4th gear it is 1:1, matching the SS 4th gear which starts out higher in 1st gear. So the gear spacing is really wide between 1-4, causing the engine to be out of its powerband more so than it should be. That hinders an engine like the Gen 3 Coyote that loves to scream at the top. They should have made 4th lower to keep the gear spacing closer. Then there would be no GT*. Just 12.1 second A10s and 12.2 second '18 GT M6s.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ford typically keeps Mustang gens around about 10 years +/-. Given the current gen debuted in 2015, it could simply be a little premature to be printing information about the next gen given how early it is.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

GM can do the same with the 6th gen...it's younger by a year than the S550 anyway.

It is early to be printing information on either vehicle beyond ‘21, but there are still some sources of credible information. Mustang was originally on path for a major upgrade for ‘21 MY, Camaro for ‘22. Best information currently available (to me at least...someone else may have better) is that neither major upgrade is happening. Despite the ridiculous performance gains that we as consumers are seeing year over year, the sales market for these types of vehicles is dropping fast, causing manufacturers to rethink investment. The only thing that is different between GM’s position with Camaro and Ford’s position with Mustang is the duration of their “we’ll figure out what’s next” period.

Ford has said S550 will be refreshed in the ‘21 - ‘22 timeframe and decisions made on next gen sometime around ‘26. GM has officially said zip, but the one widely quoted source claims information stating the ‘20 refresh will carry through until ‘23. Information I have personally seen indicates A1BC (the official project code for Cam6) will continue at least through ‘23. This particular information source does not give a definitive view beyond ‘23 for any vehicle due to the nature of the info.

Actually, there is another difference. Ford has already committed to hybrid and EV versions of Mustang. GM is still sticking to the “not at liberty to discuss future programs” mantra.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I don't disagree with the C8 Z06 sentiment. That's going to be a beast. I very much doubt the base C8 will beat the GT500 to 60 by nearly a half second. Base C8 will likely be in the low 3s, assuming the Z51 is "under 3", which we know means 2.99 seconds (sort of like "under $60k" meant $59,995 and only for the '20 model year). Most likely the GT500 will be in the low 3s on stock tires, and not under 3 due to traction limits with a FE RWD car. The ZL1 is 3.4 seconds 0-60, which we know the GT500 will beat. So most likely 3.2 seconds 0-60, but after 60, vs a C8, it will be all GT500 due to the immense power advantage.

GT500 vs RE will be interesting...the two cars have essentially the same power to weight ratio (GT500 may be a hair better).

Iirc, according to ford when info was released, they claim 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. I could be wrong but that's the same as the zl1 according to chevy. 1/4 mile may be a different story but that's yet to be determined