Consistent Loss of Power During Tracking Sessions

GunMetalGrey · 07-02-2020, 04:30 PM

So I'm really noticing a power issue with my car and I think it may be intercooler related but I don't know and would like to get feedback...

I have noticed the car has less power than it should both when I'm on the street and running warm up laps on the track when the car is still relatively cool (evidence provided by my PDR system that shows how much slower I am on the straight stretches of the track despite exiting corners faster than ever before). The car then consistently loses more and more power through out each track session. In fact it gets so bad that 10 minutes into each 20 minute session I have to stop tracking the car because it accelerates so slowly and almost stops accelerating altogether.
Once I begin the next session 40 minutes later, the car isn't too bad for power, but still not at full power and then it just gets worse and the cycle repeats.

On 2 separate occasions a few weeks ago I noticed a small pink puddle under my car, like what AC does when it drops water, so I took it to the mechanic and he said the coolant system wasn't leaking but that he would need a tool to test the inter-cooler (which he did not have) but said he could not find any leaks anywhere upon visual inspection.

It seems to may be heat related to me. I think maybe their is air in the intercooler system? Thoughts?

If so does anyone know the correct tool to pressure test the intercooler?

kropscamaro16 · 07-02-2020, 04:37 PM

https://gm-techlink.com/?p=8540

Tim M · 07-03-2020, 12:04 AM

This seems pretty cut and dried - your intercooler is low on fluid. Get this for the simplest correction:

Mine works as advertise and no issues.

DOHCVTEC · 07-03-2020, 12:22 AM

why don't you log or just take a look at your Intake Air Temperatures when that starts to happen... IAT should be around 100 F while the car is moving no matter how hard your driving with 10 - 15 F fluctuations.. if its much higher than that, you know that supercharger cooling is not working correctly!! but note, while standing still with the car idling, the temp goes way up... its normal.. once you start moving, it goes down very quickly...

also check for Knock Retard and timing advance.. I had that happen a few times, after checking the suspicion was bad fuel.. once I gassed up at the track for last session with what they said was 91, and the car was off more than 10mph on the straight after a few laps. the whole session went to waist... I believe that when the knock sensor is unhappy (bad fuel, heat) it knocks you down to a low octane map and there goes your power.. maybe some tuners can chime in on this

You can use what I use... the Trorque app on your phone.. awesome app lets you see tons of data coming from your ecu, add gauges you can monitor on your phone, datalog, pull and erace codes. etc.. its no complicated at all

all you need is the app and a bluetooth obd device

here is a link

https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluet...s%2C322&sr=8-8

also, you can use your PDR recorded sessions to pull IAT data using a program called PI Toolbox.. so if you have that session recorded, you can find out if your intake air was too hot.. unlike torque, the PI Toolbox program is rather complicated.. there are vides available to help

interested to see what it is

Stephen12ZL1 · 07-03-2020, 06:01 AM

very good advice listed above...likely the intercooler circuit has an air pocket...ECM dials back timing in this instance due to high IAT2 temps.

cirpower · 07-03-2020, 10:41 AM

I agree with the above, a data logging tool will reveal what is going on with the car.

Do not go with the ADM kit though, it didn't work for me on the round course (came loose all the time) and I ended up buying the Cordes kit.

GunMetalGrey · 07-03-2020, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

https://gm-techlink.com/?p=8540

Thanks! Ordered the adapter for my mechanic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

This seems pretty cut and dried - your intercooler is low on fluid. Get this for the simplest correction:

Mine works as advertise and no issues.

Sorry I don't see a link in your post

GunMetalGrey · 07-03-2020, 05:11 PM

This is a picture of the coolant leak I found twice a few weeks back, but have not seen since.

It was dripping down the passenger side of the front most radiator that is most visible from the large front grill which I now understand to be the primary intercooler (I thought it was the radiator). Thanks for all the advice guys, I'd say it's quite obvious now that you are right.

Name: Coolant Leak.jpg
Views: 531
Size: 121.6 KB

Name: Coolant Leak.jpg
Views: 531
Size: 121.6 KB

I had this same power loss problem last track day in June but not as bad, the car was consistently under powered but it never seemed to get worse through the track session like it did this time where it got very severe. I initially thought it was the differential because after the track day I noticed the tire shop had put mistakenly put a 305/30 on the drivers side rear and a 285/30 on the passenger's side rear which is a 2.5" difference in circumference.

Despite this, my car was still able to keep up with a 2018 Porsche GT3 (who was a decently good driver and was driving hard) and I set new PB's at the track thanks to the GY SC3R tires! I'm very impressed with this generation of Camaro

GunMetalGrey · 07-03-2020, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOHCVTEC

why don't you log or just take a look at your Intake Air Temperatures when that starts to happen... IAT should be around 100 F while the car is moving no matter how hard your driving with 10 - 15 F fluctuations.. if its much higher than that, you know that supercharger cooling is not working correctly!! but note, while standing still with the car idling, the temp goes way up... its normal.. once you start moving, it goes down very quickly...

You can use what I use... the Trorque app on your phone.. awesome app lets you see tons of data coming from your ecu, add gauges you can monitor on your phone, datalog, pull and erace codes. etc.. its no complicated at all

all you need is the app and a bluetooth obd device

here is a link

https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluet...s%2C322&sr=8-8

interested to see what it is

Had no idea this was possible so easily! It's been ordered and I'll borrow someones Android phone since mine is an Apple iPhone and I'm not sure how to match up Apple Apps with OBD2 Scan devices for compatibility.

DOHCVTEC · 07-03-2020, 11:41 PM

I don't know about other apps and not sure if toque is even available on apple, but if it is, or if there are comparable apps on apple and i'm sure there are, the app it self will allow you to choose a bluetooth paired device from your list of paired devises on your phone.. so first you have to pair your phone to the obd device using bluetooth, after that your app takes over and you should be good to go

Tim M · 07-04-2020, 09:29 AM

I used the ADM reservoir:

https://c-8parts.com/products/2016-2...sivoir-upgrade

I've had no issue with the system coming loose (sounds like a nylock would fix that). It is at a higher position than the Cordes system so a bit easier to refill, but likely not an issue either way.

The supercharger has two 'radiators'. One on the DRIVER's side and one dead center of the car's grill.

The radiator on the PASSENGER's side is an actual engine cooling auxiliary radiator.

Likely the leak could be coming from either and still be in vicinity of that spot. But since you have a power loss - it is more likely coming from the center supercharger radiator (heat exchanger)...needs fixed of course. No leaks are allowed...especially on the road course - slippery stuff!

Do a search on this forum if you want more info - good luck!

Stephen12ZL1 · 07-04-2020, 09:06 PM

the ADM setup works fine as I have at least 6K miles around VIR with no leaks and nothing has come loose!

GunMetalGrey · 07-05-2020, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I used the ADM reservoir:

https://c-8parts.com/products/2016-2...sivoir-upgrade

I've had no issue with the system coming loose (sounds like a nylock would fix that). It is at a higher position than the Cordes system so a bit easier to refill, but likely not an issue either way.

Likely the leak could be coming from either and still be in vicinity of that spot. But since you have a power loss - it is more likely coming from the center supercharger radiator (heat exchanger)...needs fixed of course. No leaks are allowed...especially on the road course - slippery stuff!

Do a search on this forum if you want more info - good luck!

It only leaked twice (That I saw, as per the picture I posted) and I’ve never seen it since then, my mechanic couldn’t find a leak either which is why we ordered the adapter to do a pressure test.

Did you use that ADM kit as a repair or upgrade or both?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

the ADM setup works fine as I have at least 6K miles around VIR with no leaks and nothing has come loose!

Did you use that ADM kit as a repair or upgrade or both?

Also I’m guessing depending on where the leak is I may not have to replace the entire intercooler, but just a part of it?

TrackClub · 07-06-2020, 01:44 AM

GMG, ive sent ya a PM.

PS great to see so many folks offering great help for ya!

07-02-2020, 04:30 PM	#1
GunMetalGrey Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada Posts: 1,384	Consistent Loss of Power During Tracking Sessions So I'm really noticing a power issue with my car and I think it may be intercooler related but I don't know and would like to get feedback... I have noticed the car has less power than it should both when I'm on the street and running warm up laps on the track when the car is still relatively cool (evidence provided by my PDR system that shows how much slower I am on the straight stretches of the track despite exiting corners faster than ever before). The car then consistently loses more and more power through out each track session. In fact it gets so bad that 10 minutes into each 20 minute session I have to stop tracking the car because it accelerates so slowly and almost stops accelerating altogether. Once I begin the next session 40 minutes later, the car isn't too bad for power, but still not at full power and then it just gets worse and the cycle repeats. On 2 separate occasions a few weeks ago I noticed a small pink puddle under my car, like what AC does when it drops water, so I took it to the mechanic and he said the coolant system wasn't leaking but that he would need a tool to test the inter-cooler (which he did not have) but said he could not find any leaks anywhere upon visual inspection. It seems to may be heat related to me. I think maybe their is air in the intercooler system? Thoughts? If so does anyone know the correct tool to pressure test the intercooler? __________________ 2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades

07-02-2020, 04:37 PM	#2
kropscamaro16 Drives: 2016 1ss camaro Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: 909 Posts: 9,813	https://gm-techlink.com/?p=8540 __________________ 16 1SS NIGHTFALL GRAY METALLIC WITH NPP #BECAUSERACECAR #SAVETHEMANUALS

07-03-2020, 12:04 AM	#3
Tim M Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 807	This seems pretty cut and dried - your intercooler is low on fluid. Get this for the simplest correction: Mine works as advertise and no issues. __________________ 2018 SS 1LE German Based Nurburgring Visit #19 Ring Laps: 77

07-03-2020, 06:01 AM	#5
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,808	very good advice listed above...likely the intercooler circuit has an air pocket...ECM dials back timing in this instance due to high IAT2 temps. __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

07-03-2020, 05:11 PM	#8
GunMetalGrey Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada Posts: 1,384	This is a picture of the coolant leak I found twice a few weeks back, but have not seen since. It was dripping down the passenger side of the front most radiator that is most visible from the large front grill which I now understand to be the primary intercooler (I thought it was the radiator). Thanks for all the advice guys, I'd say it's quite obvious now that you are right. I had this same power loss problem last track day in June but not as bad, the car was consistently under powered but it never seemed to get worse through the track session like it did this time where it got very severe. I initially thought it was the differential because after the track day I noticed the tire shop had put mistakenly put a 305/30 on the drivers side rear and a 285/30 on the passenger's side rear which is a 2.5" difference in circumference. Despite this, my car was still able to keep up with a 2018 Porsche GT3 (who was a decently good driver and was driving hard) and I set new PB's at the track thanks to the GY SC3R tires! I'm very impressed with this generation of Camaro __________________ 2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades Last edited by GunMetalGrey; 07-03-2020 at 05:22 PM.

07-03-2020, 12:22 AM	#4
DOHCVTEC Drives: 2018 Chevy Camaro ZL1 M6 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Arizona Posts: 145	why don't you log or just take a look at your Intake Air Temperatures when that starts to happen... IAT should be around 100 F while the car is moving no matter how hard your driving with 10 - 15 F fluctuations.. if its much higher than that, you know that supercharger cooling is not working correctly!! but note, while standing still with the car idling, the temp goes way up... its normal.. once you start moving, it goes down very quickly... also check for Knock Retard and timing advance.. I had that happen a few times, after checking the suspicion was bad fuel.. once I gassed up at the track for last session with what they said was 91, and the car was off more than 10mph on the straight after a few laps. the whole session went to waist... I believe that when the knock sensor is unhappy (bad fuel, heat) it knocks you down to a low octane map and there goes your power.. maybe some tuners can chime in on this You can use what I use... the Trorque app on your phone.. awesome app lets you see tons of data coming from your ecu, add gauges you can monitor on your phone, datalog, pull and erace codes. etc.. its no complicated at all all you need is the app and a bluetooth obd device here is a link https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluet...s%2C322&sr=8-8 also, you can use your PDR recorded sessions to pull IAT data using a program called PI Toolbox.. so if you have that session recorded, you can find out if your intake air was too hot.. unlike torque, the PI Toolbox program is rather complicated.. there are vides available to help interested to see what it is

07-03-2020, 10:41 AM	#6
cirpower Drives: Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Kansas City Posts: 201	I agree with the above, a data logging tool will reveal what is going on with the car. Do not go with the ADM kit though, it didn't work for me on the round course (came loose all the time) and I ended up buying the Cordes kit.

07-03-2020, 11:41 PM	#10
DOHCVTEC Drives: 2018 Chevy Camaro ZL1 M6 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Arizona Posts: 145	I don't know about other apps and not sure if toque is even available on apple, but if it is, or if there are comparable apps on apple and i'm sure there are, the app it self will allow you to choose a bluetooth paired device from your list of paired devises on your phone.. so first you have to pair your phone to the obd device using bluetooth, after that your app takes over and you should be good to go

07-04-2020, 09:29 AM	#11
Tim M Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 807	I used the ADM reservoir: https://c-8parts.com/products/2016-2...sivoir-upgrade I've had no issue with the system coming loose (sounds like a nylock would fix that). It is at a higher position than the Cordes system so a bit easier to refill, but likely not an issue either way. The supercharger has two 'radiators'. One on the DRIVER's side and one dead center of the car's grill. The radiator on the PASSENGER's side is an actual engine cooling auxiliary radiator. Likely the leak could be coming from either and still be in vicinity of that spot. But since you have a power loss - it is more likely coming from the center supercharger radiator (heat exchanger)...needs fixed of course. No leaks are allowed...especially on the road course - slippery stuff! Do a search on this forum if you want more info - good luck! __________________ 2018 SS 1LE German Based Nurburgring Visit #19 Ring Laps: 77

07-04-2020, 09:06 PM	#12
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,808	the ADM setup works fine as I have at least 6K miles around VIR with no leaks and nothing has come loose! __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

07-06-2020, 01:44 AM	#14
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	GMG, ive sent ya a PM. PS great to see so many folks offering great help for ya!

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