[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Waiting46

While I agree that the 2SS will be the grand touring model, they have essentially said that safety, disco lights, and an upgraded stereo are worth $5k, where with the 1SS vs 2SS it was safety, disco lights, upgraded stereo AND leather seats and a HUD were worth $5k before. They are devaluing the 2SS, so they should add more standard equipment to it to make it a valuable option (I use valuable in terms of bang for buck here).

noooo...I don't think they're devaluing it. I think you're looking at the situation a little crooked. First of all, let's remember that we don't know the price of the 1LE package. Not yet. But let's assume...for the sake of arguing, that it's $6000.

The 2SS includes the following equipment over a 1SS:

• Heated outside mirrors
• Memory Package
• 5 interior color choices, vs 2 (on 1SS)
• Leather seating surfaces
• Leather-wrapped interior appointments (knee pads, arm rest)
• Heated & Ventilated driver/passenger seats
• Illuminated sill plates
• Heated steering wheel
• Head-Up Display
• Wireless charging station
• Universal Home Remote
• Inside rearview auto-dimming mirror
• Dual-zone automatic climate control
• Interior Spectrum lighting
• Real aluminum accents on door trim and shifter
• Available navigation
• Bose 7-speaker audio system
• Rear Park Assist
• Rear Cross-traffic alert
• Side blind-zone alert

The 1LE includes the following off that list...or the equivalent of (that we know of, now):

• Leather seating surfaces
• Head-Up Display

That's a LOT of extra stuff on the 2SS not included. And all of the pricier stuff isn't part of the 1LE package, like the heated/ventilated seats, dual-zone climate control, interior spectrum lighting, Bose...

Now, in terms of exterior and mechanical options...there's a lot that's not available on the 2SS. And nobody will be able to select options to make their 2SS perform like a 1LE (unless they offer it somehow through accessories...MRC makes that unlikely)

But...Brakes, MRC, and NPP add up to about: $5715

1LE: $6000 (guesstimate)

There will still be about a $5000 difference between the two, even if you add all those mechanical bits, and besides the seats (which will polarize some people), there's still $5000 worth of difference between the two...In my opinion.

In many ways...and I hate to draw this comparison...this is what Ford has done with the GT350....you can get a track pack OR an electronics pack. In this case, starting from a 1SS...you can have a 2SS, or a 1LE....both directions are about the same price, yet both will attract different buyers.

EDIT: This is also why the 1LE package was, and is, considered one of the best bargains in the segment, if not the sports car class.

[Waiting46]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

noooo...I don't think they're devaluing it. I think you're looking at the situation a little crooked. First of all, let's remember that we don't know the price of the 1LE package. Not yet. But let's assume...for the sake of arguing, that it's $6000.

The 2SS includes the following equipment over a 1SS:

• Heated outside mirrors
• Memory Package
• 5 interior color choices, vs 2 (on 1SS)
• Leather seating surfaces
• Leather-wrapped interior appointments (knee pads, arm rest)
• Heated & Ventilated driver/passenger seats
• Illuminated sill plates
• Heated steering wheel
• Head-Up Display
• Wireless charging station
• Universal Home Remote
• Inside rearview auto-dimming mirror
• Dual-zone automatic climate control
• Interior Spectrum lighting
• Real aluminum accents on door trim and shifter
• Available navigation
• Bose 7-speaker audio system
• Rear Park Assist
• Rear Cross-traffic alert
• Side blind-zone alert

The 1LE includes the following off that list...or the equivalent of (that we know of, now):

• Leather seating surfaces
• Head-Up Display

That's a LOT of extra stuff on the 2SS not included. And all of the pricier stuff isn't part of the 1LE package, like the heated/ventilated seats, dual-zone climate control, interior spectrum lighting, Bose...

Now, in terms of exterior and mechanical options...there's a lot that's not available on the 2SS. And nobody will be able to select options to make their 2SS perform like a 1LE (unless they offer it somehow through accessories...MRC makes that unlikely)

But...Brakes, MRC, and NPP add up to about: $5715

1LE: $6000 (guesstimate)

There will still be about a $5000 difference between the two, even if you add all those mechanical bits, and besides the seats (which will polarize some people), there's still $5000 worth of difference between the two...In my opinion.

EDIT: This is also why the 1LE package was, and is, considered one of the best bargains in the segment, if not the sports car class.

Yes there are several options that the 1LE cannot get, and I agree that the 1LE should be an incredible bargain, if the price difference between a 1SS and a 2SS (optioned as similarly as possible) is approx. the same as a 1LE and 2SS (again, optioned as similarly as possible) with more features in common, they are devaluing the 2SS' features.

I look at it like this:
1SS: I want a V8
1LE: I want to spend more money on a more capable V8
2SS: I want to spend more money on a more comfortable V8

If the 1LE is a little bit more money for a lot more performance (relatively)
and the 2SS is the same amount of money for a little bit of luxury its not a very good deal, and I don't consider

Leather seating surfaces
Heated & Ventilated driver/passenger seats
Memory Package
Heated steering wheel
Leather-wrapped interior appointments (knee pads, arm rest)
Real aluminum accents on door trim and shifter
Illuminated sill plates
Wireless charging station
Universal Home Remote
Inside rearview auto-dimming mirror
Dual-zone automatic climate control
Interior Spectrum lighting
Bose 7-speaker audio system
Heated outside mirrors
Rear Park Assist
Rear Cross-traffic alert
Side blind-zone alert
(I deleted a few things because they are either additional cost packages or available on the 1LE)

to be of equal "luxury value" to the "performance value" of the 1LE's

• Recaro front seats with aggressive bolsters optimized for shifting and steering comfort (with rear leather seats)
• Suede steering wheel with shorter-throw shifter
• Three-piece rear spoiler (and satin black hood, front mirrors and unique)
• Satin Graphite front splitter and rear diffuser
• Segment-exclusive electronic limited-slip differential with 3.73 ratio
• Unique forged aluminum wheels with 285/30ZR20 front tires and 305/30ZR20 rear tires
• Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires with a compound and construction developed exclusively for the Camaro
• Track-cooling package, with engine oil, differential and transmission coolers (not sure if the same system in the SS models?)

Mostly because I know the eLSD, tires, and Recaros aren't a cheap upgrade, whereas disco lights and wireless charging are cheap gimmicks

But I guess Im in the minority

[Eric SS]

Originally Posted by Waiting46

Mostly because I know the eLSD, tires, and Recaros aren't a cheap upgrade, whereas disco lights and wireless charging are cheap gimmicks

But I guess Im in the minority

This is why I'm struggling so much to decide which one I want. I really want the eDiff, Recaros, the FE4 suspension and those lovely wheels/tires. The only way to get the eDiff and full FE4 suspension will probably be to get the 1LE package. And the wheels/tires will probably cost what the entire 1LE package will cost if I buy them LPO on a 2SS. But being in AZ and commuting in traffic daily I also really want heated/cooled seats, Bose, homelink, auto dimming mirrors, the other safety features, etc. I really don't think I'm in the minority to want the standard 2SS features and the cool factor of the 1LE package as well.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Waiting46

If the 1LE is a little bit more money for a lot more performance (relatively)
and the 2SS is the same amount of money for a little bit of luxury its not a very good deal, and I don't consider to be of equal "luxury value" to the "performance value" of the 1LE's...

...Mostly because I know the eLSD, tires, and Recaros aren't a cheap upgrade, whereas disco lights and wireless charging are cheap gimmicks

But I guess Im in the minority

Well, there's the crux of it in bold. I completely understand where you're coming from. However, your opinion on the value of the equipment may not reflect the value other people see when walking into showrooms. How many people around here have even looked at the 5th gen 1LE package and said: "why should I pay $3500 for black wheels and tires with poor tread life?"

For example...The '17 1LE tires most likely cost the same as the standard Goodyears. This is the case with the 5th gen...but you see them as an expensive upgrade. And I know they offer an accessory kit for the spectrum lighting, for $995. (Notice that I don't call them "disco lights", which is reflective of how I probably like the feature much more than you.) If I decide to purchase a 1LE...a very real possibility...I will be buying that lighting kit.

So to value a trim level based on equipment you want/don't want without a parts list and prices ala carte...it's sort of a catch-22...opinions will vary greatly.

[IOMike]

1le addresses two of my major gripes with the 1ss. Seats and HUD. You can probably do a speaker upgrade to beat tr BOSE, all that's left is the nicer door panels (ebay in a few years?) And the 8 speed auto.

Then it would be perfect.

[Waiting46]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Well, there's the crux of it in bold. I completely understand where you're coming from. However, your opinion on the value of the equipment may not reflect the value other people see when walking into showrooms. How many people around here have even looked at the 5th gen 1LE package and said: "why should I pay $3500 for black wheels and tires with poor tread life?"

For example...The '17 1LE tires most likely cost the same as the standard Goodyears. This is the case with the 5th gen...but you see them as an expensive upgrade. And I know they offer an accessory kit for the spectrum lighting, for $995. (Notice that I don't call them "disco lights", which is reflective of how I probably like the feature much more than you.) If I decide to purchase a 1LE...a very real possibility...I will be buying that lighting kit.

So to value a trim level based on equipment you want/don't want without a parts list and prices ala carte...it's sort of a catch-22...opinions will vary greatly.

I guess that's the difference between performance and luxury, luxury is perception, performance I can find numbers.

I just hope to see Chevy adjust the 2SS to make it competitive, I currently see no compelling reason to purchase the 2SS over the 1LE, as you mentioned a lot of the 2SS bits can be purchased aftermarket for the 1LE, while most of the 1LE parts would be cost prohibitive to bring to the 2SS.

Perhaps PDR will be standard on the 2SS XD