ST43 pads: ive cooked the "magic"

TrackClub · 08-26-2017, 10:40 PM

I know that some (marketing?) refer to them as "magic pads" but after trying them today, the only "magic" was a very aggressive initial bite - which I didn't like BTW as it was difficult to modulate the brakes. But most importantly, I got fade at 10 laps on a 1:2x track and when I pulled in to the pits after the first stint: the fronts were smoking seriously! I repeated the process 3 more sessions with the same result: the brakes were good for 10 laps. Yes I've bedded them and yes I had fresh fluid. This is the same track I could stand on stock pads for my PB and then had the same success pace wise with XP10s. After Googling some BBs I've discovered I am not the only person to have experienced this. Perhaps driving style might have something to do with it, but clearly this "magic" is not for me. To be fair, the wear seems good, but that's academic if they cook in less than 20mins.
My first hand take anyway. NB Ambient was about 72F.

seanblurr · 08-26-2017, 11:35 PM

The car is rough on brakes, that's for sure. I may try DTC60's or 70's next. My G-Loc 12's cant handle 4+ laps at Laguna.

JeromeS13 · 08-26-2017, 11:58 PM

Just curious, which PTM mode are you using?

seanblurr · 08-27-2017, 10:08 AM

Me? Either PTM:Race or full off.

Uncle Sam · 08-27-2017, 10:53 AM

Track Club, it is good to post the results of practical experience for others to consider. I think you are one of the 1LE owners who do the most track days and have the sample size to make comparisons. Thanks for the information.

JeromeS13 · 08-27-2017, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanblurr

Me? Either PTM:Race or full off.

No, I was asking the OP. I'm wondering if he's leaving it in Sport 1 or Sport 2, and the thinking maybe the Stabilitrac or something is contributing to the additional heat in the pads...

glamcem · 08-27-2017, 03:16 PM

It takes some time to adopt to real race pads. I think you should give them another chance. As you said, the initial bite is very different and driving style has a lot to do with it also. You may try braking a little late and don't drag them like the street pads since the initial bite and the friction creates a lot more braking force (unlike the street pads or XP10) which ultimately creates a lot of heat in the whole braking system (rotors, calipers..etc).

ST43s are definitely in a whole another league compared to XP10s or the stock pads and it's very possible that you would see the similar results with XP16s. I hope that helps

TrackClub · 08-27-2017, 04:11 PM

I've driven top shelf Ferodo DSUNOS for many yrs so know what "real race pads" feel like

IMO no "real race pad" will smoke and fade after 15mins, on consistent basis regardless how I drove the car. I've driven 45min competitive stints on XP10s and NEVER had fade (albeit on a lighter car).
Based on Carbotech - XP12 should be better suited for dual duty on a Camaro (yet I had no issues even on XP10s)

PS I drive in Race, but note that I've tested the car in all modes incl StabiliTrak (PTM Sport 1 and Comp Mode) on stock pads, for full 30min stints driving her hard and had zero issues. And to add, my pace was even off yesterday as there was lots of traffic.

PSS Several folks post valuable info here and that's what makes this forum so great

TrackClub · 08-27-2017, 04:15 PM

Cem, if you like the pads I will sell them to ya at half price AND pay shipping. Just PM me pls

JeromeS13 · 08-27-2017, 05:02 PM

OP, post up your PDR videos. I'd like to see when/how you're braking...

glamcem · 08-28-2017, 12:07 AM

^^ great idea. I would like to see that as well to have a better idea

I would gladly get those ST43s but believe it or not I thought I could even use more initial bite and aggressive compound since we have a heavy car so I recently switched to ST47/ST45. Like I said it's all about the driving style and tire/pad matching. I can tell my friend who has the Z51 btw, he also switches between ST47s and ST43s back and forth .

For the reference they use ST43s (ot ST47s) on enduro racings and this is the first time I am hearing them insufficient compared to XP10s or even stock pads. I mean it's not uncommon to see people say "it's too much brake" so they end up losing time, triggering ice mode..etc but they don't claim it's not sufficient.. it's typically the opposite and I get

When I had the Corvette Grand Sport I mismatched the ST43s with PSS tires, I ended up switching back to oem replacement Stoptech pads and my lap times dropped. Not because ST43s are lesser pads compared to OEMs but I didn't have the NT01s as I was planning to trade the car

I could've easily shaved a bit more if I had the ST43/NT01 combination even more than OEM pads/NT01 ..being able to brake late is not only a great advantage to shave lap times but also a great way to keep the rotor/pad temps in check.

RacingBrake · 08-28-2017, 09:30 AM

RB sintered pads can be a good option if you are looking for an all time (street/track), all weather (cold winter/hot summer), all occasion & never fade brake pad.

http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-XC-40-.../pd1395-40.htm

MatthewAMEL · 08-28-2017, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacingBrake

RB sintered pads can be a good option if you are looking for an all time (street/track), all weather (cold winter/hot summer), all occasion & never fade brake pad.

http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-XC-40-.../pd1395-40.htm

The description of that pad says it is for a Carbon Ceramic rotor...

Marshsram · 08-28-2017, 11:32 AM

I'm also in the same boat that doesn't care for the Raybestos ST series pads because they are not as easy to modulate. On my other car (M3) I've gone through pretty much all the other major payers- Carbotech XP10/XP12, Project Mu Club Racer, Endless ME20, Cobalt XR2, PFC 11/08/01/97 and I just don't see what all the fuss is about once you try some other options that give you the strong initial bite, medium to high friction levels AND the modulation control.

I do think that Raybestos' compound options offer a great value for anyone going out there to simply turn some laps for fun at a DE since they are usually one of the least expensive options, work well enough for fun laps and wear very well. I also agree that once you have a pad that can lock the tires/engage ABS braking preferences are highly subjective and different types of pads work better for different folks. I just never understood why they had so many die hard fans unless they were all just raised on Raybestos and never bothered to try anything else.

08-26-2017, 10:40 PM	#1
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	ST43 pads: ive cooked the "magic" I know that some (marketing?) refer to them as "magic pads" but after trying them today, the only "magic" was a very aggressive initial bite - which I didn't like BTW as it was difficult to modulate the brakes. But most importantly, I got fade at 10 laps on a 1:2x track and when I pulled in to the pits after the first stint: the fronts were smoking seriously! I repeated the process 3 more sessions with the same result: the brakes were good for 10 laps. Yes I've bedded them and yes I had fresh fluid. This is the same track I could stand on stock pads for my PB and then had the same success pace wise with XP10s. After Googling some BBs I've discovered I am not the only person to have experienced this. Perhaps driving style might have something to do with it, but clearly this "magic" is not for me. To be fair, the wear seems good, but that's academic if they cook in less than 20mins. My first hand take anyway. NB Ambient was about 72F.

08-26-2017, 11:35 PM	#2
seanblurr Drives: ZL1 1LE Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: California Posts: 1,297	The car is rough on brakes, that's for sure. I may try DTC60's or 70's next. My G-Loc 12's cant handle 4+ laps at Laguna. __________________

08-27-2017, 10:08 AM	#4
seanblurr Drives: ZL1 1LE Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: California Posts: 1,297	Me? Either PTM:Race or full off. __________________

08-27-2017, 03:16 PM	#7
glamcem Drives: '19 RivrsdBlu 1LE ('17 1LE HB sold) Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,686	It takes some time to adopt to real race pads. I think you should give them another chance. As you said, the initial bite is very different and driving style has a lot to do with it also. You may try braking a little late and don't drag them like the street pads since the initial bite and the friction creates a lot more braking force (unlike the street pads or XP10) which ultimately creates a lot of heat in the whole braking system (rotors, calipers..etc). ST43s are definitely in a whole another league compared to XP10s or the stock pads and it's very possible that you would see the similar results with XP16s. I hope that helps __________________ Link to my build thread YouTube Page

08-28-2017, 12:07 AM	#11
glamcem Drives: '19 RivrsdBlu 1LE ('17 1LE HB sold) Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,686	^^ great idea. I would like to see that as well to have a better idea I would gladly get those ST43s but believe it or not I thought I could even use more initial bite and aggressive compound since we have a heavy car so I recently switched to ST47/ST45. Like I said it's all about the driving style and tire/pad matching. I can tell my friend who has the Z51 btw, he also switches between ST47s and ST43s back and forth . For the reference they use ST43s (ot ST47s) on enduro racings and this is the first time I am hearing them insufficient compared to XP10s or even stock pads. I mean it's not uncommon to see people say "it's too much brake" so they end up losing time, triggering ice mode..etc but they don't claim it's not sufficient.. it's typically the opposite and I get When I had the Corvette Grand Sport I mismatched the ST43s with PSS tires, I ended up switching back to oem replacement Stoptech pads and my lap times dropped. Not because ST43s are lesser pads compared to OEMs but I didn't have the NT01s as I was planning to trade the car I could've easily shaved a bit more if I had the ST43/NT01 combination even more than OEM pads/NT01 ..being able to brake late is not only a great advantage to shave lap times but also a great way to keep the rotor/pad temps in check. __________________ Link to my build thread YouTube Page

08-26-2017, 11:58 PM	#3
JeromeS13 Drives: 2017 1SS/1LE Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: FL Panhandle Posts: 1,559	Just curious, which PTM mode are you using?

08-27-2017, 10:53 AM	#5
Uncle Sam Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LE Hyper Blue Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Rockville, Maryland Posts: 373	Track Club, it is good to post the results of practical experience for others to consider. I think you are one of the 1LE owners who do the most track days and have the sample size to make comparisons. Thanks for the information.

08-27-2017, 04:11 PM	#8
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	I've driven top shelf Ferodo DSUNOS for many yrs so know what "real race pads" feel like IMO no "real race pad" will smoke and fade after 15mins, on consistent basis regardless how I drove the car. I've driven 45min competitive stints on XP10s and NEVER had fade (albeit on a lighter car). Based on Carbotech - XP12 should be better suited for dual duty on a Camaro (yet I had no issues even on XP10s) PS I drive in Race, but note that I've tested the car in all modes incl StabiliTrak (PTM Sport 1 and Comp Mode) on stock pads, for full 30min stints driving her hard and had zero issues. And to add, my pace was even off yesterday as there was lots of traffic. PSS Several folks post valuable info here and that's what makes this forum so great

08-27-2017, 04:15 PM	#9
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	Cem, if you like the pads I will sell them to ya at half price AND pay shipping. Just PM me pls

08-27-2017, 05:02 PM	#10
JeromeS13 Drives: 2017 1SS/1LE Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: FL Panhandle Posts: 1,559	OP, post up your PDR videos. I'd like to see when/how you're braking...

08-28-2017, 09:30 AM	#12
RacingBrake Drives: Camaro Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Fullerton, CA Posts: 78	RB sintered pads can be a good option if you are looking for an all time (street/track), all weather (cold winter/hot summer), all occasion & never fade brake pad. http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-XC-40-.../pd1395-40.htm

08-28-2017, 11:32 AM	#14
Marshsram Drives: 6mt Join Date: May 2017 Location: SF Posts: 32	I'm also in the same boat that doesn't care for the Raybestos ST series pads because they are not as easy to modulate. On my other car (M3) I've gone through pretty much all the other major payers- Carbotech XP10/XP12, Project Mu Club Racer, Endless ME20, Cobalt XR2, PFC 11/08/01/97 and I just don't see what all the fuss is about once you try some other options that give you the strong initial bite, medium to high friction levels AND the modulation control. I do think that Raybestos' compound options offer a great value for anyone going out there to simply turn some laps for fun at a DE since they are usually one of the least expensive options, work well enough for fun laps and wear very well. I also agree that once you have a pad that can lock the tires/engage ABS braking preferences are highly subjective and different types of pads work better for different folks. I just never understood why they had so many die hard fans unless they were all just raised on Raybestos and never bothered to try anything else.

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