[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

What you all miss is GM is not in the financial shape you think its in. Mustangs are selling 2 to one over Camaro and that's why they have to make it a world car. Lighter and smaller with better fuel economy, something Europe will accept! They build cars to make money, not to satisfy everyone's needs, and 2014/2015 they had a lot of very low selling losing money model lines. example SS, Z/28. The list goes on!!

lolwut. Camaro has been profitable for years now. The car basically prints money for GM.

[2014v6]

Just make rear floor mats std equipment...


Id like to see some of the cool stuff from the malibu...

[fradaj]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Eh Those complaining are probably the same doom and gloomers that said the 14 refresh was a total failure...and we all know it wasn't.

I said it before, Mustang is selling way over its head right now, and the Camaro is still holding up to the levels it was before, so obviously the Camaro isn't losing any sales to the new Mustang, or the Challenger refresh. So in my opinion it can only get better when the 6th gen comes out while the Mustang has only one way to go..... Some people form opinions on short term results. I on the other hand would rather look at the big picture and the long term.

Camaro sales are up, but Mustang sales are way up. Could be two factors that may explain this, 1 there is a new Mustang and 2 there is a new Camaro due out later in the year. It will be interesting to see the numbers after the Gen 6 Camaro goes on sale.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

So I am not wrong on every point???????

if you are looking at two months' sales, you are correct. I think anyone would predict that a brand new model will have greater sales - especially in this segment where sales tend to decay after three years. That decay did not happen with Camaro and in fact our sales are up compared to a year ago. There is no question by looking at this site that there are people 'holding off' to see what the new car will look like. And I guarantee you that there will be people who don't like the next gen car when they first see it - just as there were many who didn't like the 5th gen car when it first came out. (...the b-pillar hysteria, the mail-slot in the SS front fascia, the steering wheel - the list is rather lengthy --) but in the final analysis, the 5th gen has been a resounding success by any measure. Further, we don't have any Camaro model losing money.

[Number 3]

First of all you guys have to understand the product development cycle. In an OLD industry that actually makes big complicated things out of metal that has to pass internal quality standards for durability, fit and finish, performance ANNNND external requirements like safety and crashworthiness, EPA and DOT it takes a long time to get any all new automobile in production. I think Toyota at one point was leading the way and last I heard they were actually backing off on the speed that resulted in their sudden acceleration debacle (how quickly we forget). And that is still around 3 and half years. Now some of that is up front. Figuring out WHAT you want your product to do and be. And part of that is also to understand where the competition IS NOW and where you think THEY WILL be in the future. And also WHEN. All of this is ripe with the opportunity to predict wrong. We used to joke about when Bob Lutz would come back from the auto show the number of changes we get asked to work on in a program. But at some point you have to start making the tools to make the parts to make the car. And you have to get the plant ready to take those parts and make the car. And you have to train the workers in the plant to make the car. You then have to train the salespeople that are going to have to sell the car once the plant makes it. And you have to train the mechanics at the dealerships to fix the car (if it were to ever break). All of this takes time and almost all of it was put in motion around the time the 2014 refresh came about (give or take).

So, YES, GM knew the Camaro was getting old. And YES, GM knew that Ford would most likely maintain their refresh cycle and be a year ahead of their plan. And I'll say yes, someone in GM speculated or hypothesized that one of the big issues with the Mustang was the solid rear axle and would likely address that, and I will bet GM knew that Ford was big on ECOboost and would likely put a 4 cylinder in the new Mustang. You see the men and women on the inside don't do the Camaro in a vacuum. It's done with data and years of understanding the market and industry to predict what the product needs to be and when. In some cases you are betting hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars you are right. And that is most likely why I'm not getting my revolutionary Camaro that will stand tall in 2021, but a conservative refreshing of what works now. You can't gamble that big.

So I have no idea if Team Camaro is running around in panic because the Mustang is selling well. I would suggest that they are very concerned about putting 20% off sales on the Camaro to keep it selling. Even if Fbodfather says no model is not profitable, that is much harder to maintain when you are putting $8,000 on the hood of an SS.

There is a plan, it is likely being course corrected as we go, but that plan is in motion and it is being executed.

But to speculate that Ford has a successful new Mustang and why isn't GM doing something is a bit silly. The plan was set in motion several years ago and at this point changing it is infinitely more difficult.

So here is the deal. GM will show us the car. Then we will see spy photos from LGR from our members in Lansing of the first Pilot cars being built. And then some time after that we will see the CTF cars on the street. Then 3 or 4 months after that you will be able to test drive one.

Go back and search the internet. You can check the Mustang and you can check the C7. There is a historical record of this process and how long it takes.

This is not Apple and Samsung. Electronics is a different animal. And I can assure you that when Apple launched the iPhone 6 they were already working on the 6s for this year and the iPhone 7 for next.

So "soon" is a very relative thing.

[LesserO2Evils]

Awesome post

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First of all you guys have to understand the product development cycle. In an OLD industry that actually makes big complicated things out of metal that has to pass internal quality standards for durability, fit and finish, performance ANNNND external requirements like safety and crashworthiness, EPA and DOT it takes a long time to get any all new automobile in production. I think Toyota at one point was leading the way and last I heard they were actually backing off on the speed that resulted in their sudden acceleration debacle (how quickly we forget). And that is still around 3 and half years. Now some of that is up front. Figuring out WHAT you want your product to do and be. And part of that is also to understand where the competition IS NOW and where you think THEY WILL be in the future. And also WHEN. All of this is ripe with the opportunity to predict wrong. We used to joke about when Bob Lutz would come back from the auto show the number of changes we get asked to work on in a program. But at some point you have to start making the tools to make the parts to make the car. And you have to get the plant ready to take those parts and make the car. And you have to train the workers in the plant to make the car. You then have to train the salespeople that are going to have to sell the car once the plant makes it. And you have to train the mechanics at the dealerships to fix the car (if it were to ever break). All of this takes time and almost all of it was put in motion around the time the 2014 refresh came about (give or take).

So, YES, GM knew the Camaro was getting old. And YES, GM knew that Ford would most likely maintain their refresh cycle and be a year ahead of their plan. And I'll say yes, someone in GM speculated or hypothesized that one of the big issues with the Mustang was the solid rear axle and would likely address that, and I will bet GM knew that Ford was big on ECOboost and would likely put a 4 cylinder in the new Mustang. You see the men and women on the inside don't do the Camaro in a vacuum. It's done with data and years of understanding the market and industry to predict what the product needs to be and when. In some cases you are betting hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars you are right. And that is most likely why I'm not getting my revolutionary Camaro that will stand tall in 2021, but a conservative refreshing of what works now. You can't gamble that big.

So I have no idea if Team Camaro is running around in panic because the Mustang is selling well. I would suggest that they are very concerned about putting 20% off sales on the Camaro to keep it selling. Even if Fbodfather says no model is not profitable, that is much harder to maintain when you are putting $8,000 on the hood of an SS.

There is a plan, it is likely being course corrected as we go, but that plan is in motion and it is being executed.

But to speculate that Ford has a successful new Mustang and why isn't GM doing something is a bit silly. The plan was set in motion several years ago and at this point changing it is infinitely more difficult.

So here is the deal. GM will show us the car. Then we will see spy photos from LGR from our members in Lansing of the first Pilot cars being built. And then some time after that we will see the CTF cars on the street. Then 3 or 4 months after that you will be able to test drive one.

Go back and search the internet. You can check the Mustang and you can check the C7. There is a historical record of this process and how long it takes.

This is not Apple and Samsung. Electronics is a different animal. And I can assure you that when Apple launched the iPhone 6 they were already working on the 6s for this year and the iPhone 7 for next.

So "soon" is a very relative thing.

One of the things (...of many....)that I've always respected you for is the ability to 'explain' in layman's terms how 'things' work.

GREAT writeup and great job of explaining the 'whys' and 'wherefores' --

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

One of the things (...of many....)that I've always respected you for is the ability to 'explain' in layman's terms how 'things' work.

GREAT writeup and great job of explaining the 'whys' and 'wherefores' --

I like that you like that about me.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I like that you like that about me.

Awwwwwww

[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First of all you guys have to understand the product development cycle. In an OLD industry that actually makes big complicated things out of metal that has to pass internal quality standards for durability, fit and finish, performance ANNNND external requirements like safety and crashworthiness, EPA and DOT it takes a long time to get any all new automobile in production. I think Toyota at one point was leading the way and last I heard they were actually backing off on the speed that resulted in their sudden acceleration debacle (how quickly we forget). And that is still around 3 and half years. Now some of that is up front. Figuring out WHAT you want your product to do and be. And part of that is also to understand where the competition IS NOW and where you think THEY WILL be in the future. And also WHEN. All of this is ripe with the opportunity to predict wrong. We used to joke about when Bob Lutz would come back from the auto show the number of changes we get asked to work on in a program. But at some point you have to start making the tools to make the parts to make the car. And you have to get the plant ready to take those parts and make the car. And you have to train the workers in the plant to make the car. You then have to train the salespeople that are going to have to sell the car once the plant makes it. And you have to train the mechanics at the dealerships to fix the car (if it were to ever break). All of this takes time and almost all of it was put in motion around the time the 2014 refresh came about (give or take).

So, YES, GM knew the Camaro was getting old. And YES, GM knew that Ford would most likely maintain their refresh cycle and be a year ahead of their plan. And I'll say yes, someone in GM speculated or hypothesized that one of the big issues with the Mustang was the solid rear axle and would likely address that, and I will bet GM knew that Ford was big on ECOboost and would likely put a 4 cylinder in the new Mustang. You see the men and women on the inside don't do the Camaro in a vacuum. It's done with data and years of understanding the market and industry to predict what the product needs to be and when. In some cases you are betting hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars you are right. And that is most likely why I'm not getting my revolutionary Camaro that will stand tall in 2021, but a conservative refreshing of what works now. You can't gamble that big.

So I have no idea if Team Camaro is running around in panic because the Mustang is selling well. I would suggest that they are very concerned about putting 20% off sales on the Camaro to keep it selling. Even if Fbodfather says no model is not profitable, that is much harder to maintain when you are putting $8,000 on the hood of an SS.

There is a plan, it is likely being course corrected as we go, but that plan is in motion and it is being executed.

But to speculate that Ford has a successful new Mustang and why isn't GM doing something is a bit silly. The plan was set in motion several years ago and at this point changing it is infinitely more difficult.

So here is the deal. GM will show us the car. Then we will see spy photos from LGR from our members in Lansing of the first Pilot cars being built. And then some time after that we will see the CTF cars on the street. Then 3 or 4 months after that you will be able to test drive one.

Go back and search the internet. You can check the Mustang and you can check the C7. There is a historical record of this process and how long it takes.

This is not Apple and Samsung. Electronics is a different animal. And I can assure you that when Apple launched the iPhone 6 they were already working on the 6s for this year and the iPhone 7 for next.

So "soon" is a very relative thing.

Dope!!!!!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Awwwwwww

I do miss having the occasional cocktail and talking cars and life with Fbodfather. Always a good conversation.

[sonnydurden]

Two of the best cars I ever owned are sitting in my garage right now!!! And I have owned some cars over the last 24 years of my life. I'm excited about the 6 Gen. But some of you guys on here act like you DONT have a choice. GM is not forcing or asking you to wait for the 6 Gen. If these 2 months of successful Mustang sales have you shaky, then dance your a** down to the nearest Ford dealership!

[ssrs2lt]

The announcement is what I'm talking about great job gm! Build the hype! This should generate Some heat away from the mustang..

[Angrybird 12]

Just saw on Twitter from Chevy...we have a date for Camaro6 5/16/15
Its also on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152700107391669