[s346k]

about the juiced thing: i wouldn't bother. i have a fairly recent purchase with them and it was a poor experience. literally 0 communication. i only spent $1100 there, but i would not do it again. they replied to 1/4 emails and gave me the "it will ship xxx date". shipped a month later, it just showed up. i knew nothing about it shipping. box sat on my porch all day.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

On another note, did anyone notice when and why one of the top vendors is now banned and no longer on this site? For all these years Juiced Motorsports has been an official sponsor and one of the top vendors. I am even working with them on their stage 4 package for my ZL1. But just the other day I saw that they were banned and all their posts in the marketplace are gone. It kinda has me a bit worried. Like, was it some sort of disagreement or did they perhaps not meet some requirement as sponsors/vendors? Was it complaints or something? I noticed nothing out of the ordinary. It just seems weird. I hate to bring this up if it is something that I shouldn't be discussing. But I just want to make sure it isn't anything severe since I'm set to throw a good chunk of money at my ZL1. Does anyone have any insight?

There's been a multitude of complaints recently about lack of communication and shipping delays, which may have played a role...

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by s346k

this is to be expected from a car that is literally twice the cost of yours. it should be better, WAY better, otherwise it's not worth it.

what i'm having trouble with is the "power advantage". everything you've said for the last year has been how fast your mustang is and how it puts zipcodes on gt350s from 40-75. that ZL1 must be a yenko car with no stickers?

Ha, yes, it is more expensive. Regarding the power difference impressions - I should say that I never claimed my car had as much power as a ZL1. That said, I think a lot of it had to do with first impressions of the supercharged 6.2 liter engine vs. a high revving DOHC 5.0 V8. That ZL1's awesome mid range torque made it shoot forward at rpms that I'm not used to (i.e., 3500 rpm in 3th gear was very strong). My car at 3500 rpm in 3th gear is "decent", but it really needs to be 4500+ rpm to throw you back pretty hard in the seat. Obviously, the two engines are much different in characteristics. So, this morning after thinking about the ZL1 all night, I took my GT out and nailed it multiple times from a 55 or 60 mph roll letting it downshift into 3rd and take off. Even after driving the ZL1 yesterday, I walked away from the drive in my car this morning with the impression that my GT still felt fast, and threw me back in my seat. Not quite ZL1 fast, but definitely still quick.

I explained it to my Dad like this: When I nail it in my GT, I feel my brain being pushed to the back of my head as the car accelerates. With the ZL1, I feel that, plus I can feel my cheeks being pulled back as well.

I still stand by my car being noticeably quicker than a stock A10 PP1 GT, as discussed in this thread a while back. Some claim my methods of confirmation might be toy-like by plugging into the car's OBDII port, but significant MAF improvements and likewise the acceleration improvements verified more than marginal gains.

That said, I still want a ZL1

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Some time ago I came up with an explanation as to why certain people in the car game had specific attitudes and ideas about the Mustang GTs. Basically my POV was this. That the people who came from S197 and SN95 Mustangs probably were wowed by the 18 GT because of the performance gap. That was probably why a lot of them didn't understand why us Camaro folk over here were not all that impressed with it. Because we had that level of performance years earlier. Idaho was once such individual. He went straight to the 18 GT and because he had never been on that performance level before, he was instantly wowed. Now that he got to experience the ZL1 he can clearly see why most of us simply didn't think much of the Mustangs this Generation. He is basically about to get a car that can bang heads with the GT500 and Hellcat and Z06 for a little more than the price of a fully loaded Mustang GT...or for almost the same price as the GT350...or cheaper than the GT350R. On top of the handling, it doesn't weigh much more than the GT, HUD which is standard, eLSD, amazing tires that come on it, instant boost from the blower coupled with 10 gears, Recaros, and all the options with it, he is straight up getting a car that is almost a full second faster in the quarter mile.

What I want to know is...now that he has experienced it...if the visibility still as bad as he thought it was before. LOL!! I will not make fun of him if the visibility suddenly becomes a non-issue. I had the same thing happen to me. The first time I sat in a 6th Gen it was a 1SS and I was horrified by the visibility. I thought the 5th Gens were bad but not too bad. But the 6th Gen was just obscene I thought. That is, until my salesman buddy called me and told me they had a ZL1 coming in and asked if I wanted 1st crack at it. LOL!! Those visibility issues went away and never returned. I just wonder what he thinks of it now.

What visibility issues??

But for real, I barely noticed as I was trying to be in tune with the car as much as possible during my ~35 minute test drive. I liked the low slung position - my GT did feel somewhat upright in comparison when I got back into it after the ZL1. But after driving my GT again this morning, it felt normal again.

I will say the visibility out the rear of the ZL1 is horrendous, and I didn't like the camera mirror display in the rear view mirror at all - I really don't like having to adjust my vision depth every time I looked in the rear view, so I just left it as a regular mirror and probably wouldn't use the digital display ever. There's a backup camera so I wouldn't even use it then.

That said, the visibility was not a deal breaker by any means because ZL1 .

Other thoughts compared to my car (keeping it relevant to a ZL1 vs Mustang GT, if not GT500, thread):

As far as interior overall - I like the design and styling - it's so different from my Mustang (they both are nice IMO, just different), and the downward tilted 8" screen was a little strange but not a detriment to using it. I liked the gauges and screen in the gauge, the gauge pod seemed a little bulbous but it didn't impede front visibility at all. I am a little concerned about fitting my kids in the back seat, it looked pretty small back there. But none of those matter, really, compared to the performance and style of the car.

I really liked the tire temperature display (Cold, normal, etc.) and tire slip monitor. That was helpful. The performance page was more useful for real time performance metrics than my Mustang. My GT has temperatures and shows data of all the important things, but not as much useful real-time performance screens as the ZL1 data showed. I didn't use the HUD, but probably because I am not used to it. In fact, for some reason I didn't even notice it while I was driving. I had to make a conscience decision to look at it.

Other thoughts - the turn in and steering felt really good, my Mustang has a bit more of a dead feel on center in comparison, and a slight delay in turn in compared to the ZL1. I didn't get to push the ZL1 much around twisty roads, but was able to find a few curves. But with the cold weather I wasn't willing to push the summer tires (same thing in my GT right now - I'm working from home so I haven't switched to my winter Michelin all season 3+).

My Mustang w/ MagneRide and PP1 doesn't have much body roll, but the ZL1 has less and seems to feel more precise from my recollection.

I glanced down at the speedo on the highway after mashing it at 60 mph, and the speedo needle was moving so quick it looked like a tachometer running up the rpms!

Another thing I noticed was the transmission tuning differences. Compared to my Mustang, the ZL1 was willing to downshift into 3rd from 60 mph more quickly than my GT. Actual upshift gear change times were comparable, not surprising considering the trans is a GM/Ford joint venture. The paddle shifters in my GT feel better to me - the paddles in the ZL1 had more travel in them, requiring a bit more time to flick them. Response time under moderate to hard throttle seemed similar in both cars using the paddles. The tuning of the paddles in the ZL1 under light throttle was better than my GT, which leaves some to be desired (probably my biggest complaint about the trans. tuning in my car is the light throttle paddle response).

The shifts in drag mode in my car are more brutal due to the shift logic. Today with my tires somewhat warmed up, I nailed it at 60 mph and it downshifted into 3rd and on the 3-4 upshift at about 80 mph my tires broke loose. That doesn't happen in warm weather on the 3-4 change, and the tires obviously weren't up to full temperature (warm enough to hook up in 3rd). The shifts in the ZL1 sport mode felt similar to my car in "Sport+" mode. Essentially - very quick.

Parked next to each other, the ZL1 front end looked meaner and made my GT PP1 front end seem a little plain in comparison. I love the styling of the ZL1, but overall I probably still prefer the profile fastback shape and rear end of the Mustang. But the ZL1 looks really, really good.

I like the idea of driving a ZL1 that can hang with supercars on a track and put up a good fight in a straight line.

Anyway, those are some of my brain dump thoughts. Great performance car. I'm still looking for a black ZL1 A10 and negotiating my GT trade in value with the dealer. Their first offer was several thousand lower than I asked for, hopefully we can get to an agreement.

Anyway, even though I didn't buy this one, here's some pics (incase y'all forgot what a ZL1 looked like) of the ZL1 I drove parked next to my GT.

Edit: I forgot to address the sound comparison between the two cars: I like my exhaust sound w/ the Borla S type over the factory system on the ZL1. Subjective, obviously.

[shogun37]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I explained it to my Dad like this: When I nail it in my GT, I feel my brain being pushed to the back of my head as the car accelerates. With the ZL1, I feel that, plus I can feel my cheeks being pulled back as well.

Lordy. Never ridden a half-decent motorcycle have you...
It's hilarious reading car guys wax all "awesome-sauce" but you're forgiven, you're coming from a place of ignorance.

Test drove a ZL1 half a dozen times - it's definitely a giggle.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by shogun37

Lordy. Never ridden a half-decent motorcycle have you...
It's hilarious reading car guys wax all "awesome-sauce" but you're forgiven, you're coming from a place of ignorance.

Test drove a ZL1 half a dozen times - it's definitely a giggle.

Nope, I've never been into bikes. Besides, there's always something or someone else faster.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

What visibility issues??

But for real, I barely noticed as I was trying to be in tune with the car as much as possible during my ~35 minute test drive. I liked the low slung position - my GT did feel somewhat upright in comparison when I got back into it after the ZL1. But after driving my GT again this morning, it felt normal again.

I will say the visibility out the rear of the ZL1 is horrendous, and I didn't like the camera mirror display in the rear view mirror at all - I really don't like having to adjust my vision depth every time I looked in the rear view, so I just left it as a regular mirror and probably wouldn't use the digital display ever. There's a backup camera so I wouldn't even use it then.

That said, the visibility was not a deal breaker by any means because ZL1 .

Other thoughts compared to my car (keeping it relevant to a ZL1 vs Mustang GT, if not GT500, thread):

As far as interior overall - I like the design and styling - it's so different from my Mustang (they both are nice IMO, just different), and the downward tilted 8" screen was a little strange but not a detriment to using it. I liked the gauges and screen in the gauge, the gauge pod seemed a little bulbous but it didn't impede front visibility at all. I am a little concerned about fitting my kids in the back seat, it looked pretty small back there. But none of those matter, really, compared to the performance and style of the car.

I really liked the tire temperature display (Cold, normal, etc.) and tire slip monitor. That was helpful. The performance page was more useful for real time performance metrics than my Mustang. My GT has temperatures and shows data of all the important things, but not as much useful real-time performance screens as the ZL1 data showed. I didn't use the HUD, but probably because I am not used to it. In fact, for some reason I didn't even notice it while I was driving. I had to make a conscience decision to look at it.

Other thoughts - the turn in and steering felt really good, my Mustang has a bit more of a dead feel on center in comparison, and a slight delay in turn in compared to the ZL1. I didn't get to push the ZL1 much around twisty roads, but was able to find a few curves. But with the cold weather I wasn't willing to push the summer tires (same thing in my GT right now - I'm working from home so I haven't switched to my winter Michelin all season 3+).

My Mustang w/ MagneRide and PP1 doesn't have much body roll, but the ZL1 has less and seems to feel more precise from my recollection.

I glanced down at the speedo on the highway after mashing it at 60 mph, and the speedo needle was moving so quick it looked like a tachometer running up the rpms!

Another thing I noticed was the transmission tuning differences. Compared to my Mustang, the ZL1 was willing to downshift into 3rd from 60 mph more quickly than my GT. Actual upshift gear change times were comparable, not surprising considering the trans is a GM/Ford joint venture. The paddle shifters in my GT feel better to me - the paddles in the ZL1 had more travel in them, requiring a bit more time to flick them. Response time under moderate to hard throttle seemed similar in both cars using the paddles. The tuning of the paddles in the ZL1 under light throttle was better than my GT, which leaves some to be desired (probably my biggest complaint about the trans. tuning in my car is the light throttle paddle response).

The shifts in drag mode in my car are more brutal due to the shift logic. Today with my tires somewhat warmed up, I nailed it at 60 mph and it downshifted into 3rd and on the 3-4 upshift at about 80 mph my tires broke loose. That doesn't happen in warm weather on the 3-4 change, and the tires obviously weren't up to full temperature (warm enough to hook up in 3rd). The shifts in the ZL1 sport mode felt similar to my car in "Sport+" mode. Essentially - very quick.

Parked next to each other, the ZL1 front end looked meaner and made my GT PP1 front end seem a little plain in comparison. I love the styling of the ZL1, but overall I probably still prefer the profile fastback shape and rear end of the Mustang. But the ZL1 looks really, really good.

I like the idea of driving a ZL1 that can hang with supercars on a track and put up a good fight in a straight line.

Anyway, those are some of my brain dump thoughts. Great performance car. I'm still looking for a black ZL1 A10 and negotiating my GT trade in value with the dealer. Their first offer was several thousand lower than I asked for, hopefully we can get to an agreement.

Anyway, even though I didn't buy this one, here's some pics (incase y'all forgot what a ZL1 looked like) of the ZL1 I drove parked next to my GT.

Edit: I forgot to address the sound comparison between the two cars: I like my exhaust sound w/ the Borla S type over the factory system on the ZL1. Subjective, obviously.

Your silver on black pp1 looks pretty awesome too.

[NW-99SS]

I think Idaho's experience and open/honest review is a testament to the 6th Gen. It's not always easy to give real praise and proper criticism of a rival car (in this case, not truly a rival as it's the ZL1, but you get the idea).

Anyway, glad you got to drive a ZL1, and appreciate the thoughts and feedback on your GT as well as the ZL1. I have only driven a ZLE M6 and loved every second of it. Completely agree on rearward visibility - but I am used to that coming from a 4th gen Camaro.

Best of luck on finding a ZL1 that's right for you!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I am personally not really a fan of going to the track. I mean, why should I when there are plenty of people with the same car going there. Does everyone with a ZL1 or SS have to go to the track? And to prove what? That I can do what everyone else with the same car can do? We know the ZL1 is a high 10 sec car at best, low 11 sec car typically, mid 11 sec car on average. Some of us simply want the car for what it is capable of. Now personally, I ran 11.8 and was satisfied and never went back to the track. I did plan to go back and my goal for the next trip was an 11.6. But I found out that there were a bunch of other things I'd prefer to do with my time than go to a track and be around a bunch of dudes talking about cars. Now some people love it and that is cool. Good for them. But what I can do in this car does not make it any less than what it is. I might run a 13 in it. It is still an 11 sec car. Same with the SS. Some dude might go and run a 13. But he still has a fast car. And not for nothing, some of us want the power so we can feel it at partial throttle, WOT on the highway, or other reasons. Basically, a 650 HP supercharged car that I might only be able to run let's say a 12.3 vs a 460 HP Mustang GT that max effort can run a 11.9, well on the freeway those cars will feel completely different. And that is what some people care about. My HC at 766 RWHP and with the crappy tires I put on it (I was planning to turn it in after the lease expired) might run a mid 12 at best. And some yahoo in a GT with DRs might run a 12 flat. But put us on the freeway at 60 MPH and let us both downshift and go WOT and then tell me which car takes off like a freakin maniac psychopath on crack. The HC WILL hands down be the faster car by spades and it wouldn't even be a comparison and anyone who thinks differently is delusional. Again, to each his own. But the Hellcat dude does have a very fast car and whether or not he can extract every single last inch of power from it means nothing. Mine will be at quadruple digits to the rear wheels soon and it might not ever see the track.

There's nothing wrong with that approach as that is how most people will use it and if that is what makes you happy go for it.

However when you almost get busted for racing on the street or know somebody that wrecked their high power car driving spirited that changes perspective real quick lol. That experience really hammered down my take it to track mentality. That and racing in a class based series really changed how I view racing other cars lol.

As long as it's fun to drive on the street that's good enough for me. If I want to make it faster, I want to see those results at the track and if I want to race someone or someone wants to race me I want to take it to the track.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by shaffe

However when you almost get busted for racing on the street or know somebody that wrecked their high power car driving spirited that changes perspective real quick lol. That experience really hammered down my take it to track mentality. That and racing in a class based series really changed how I view racing other cars lol.

As long as it's fun to drive on the street that's good enough for me. If I want to make it faster, I want to see those results at the track and if I want to race someone or someone wants to race me I want to take it to the track.

I have a lot more respect for a slow guy who actually takes it to the track than I do for internet bench racers proclaiming how fast they are... and there's simply no responsible way to take a car like a ZL1 to 100% on public roads.

It's easier than it's ever been to get on actual tracks (drag or roadrace) with street cars, and it usually costs less than a speeding ticket. So get out there...

[Nothing like an SS]

Except in this neck of the woods, we don't have tracks anymore, they all closed!!!!!

Not convenient (or practical) to drive 300+ miles each direction to find a track, and that would result in drag tracks only, not helpful for me. Not mention the ridiculous amount of tolls to get on and off Long Island. It would pay for a few tanks of gas!

Totally correct, take it to the track. Wish it was that easy though.....sigh

Did I mention the traffic getting on and off LI usually results in 2-3 hours sitting in traffic (to go ~45 miles!)

Not easier than ever for some of us.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Rodan

I have a lot more respect for a slow guy who actually takes it to the track than I do for internet bench racers proclaiming how fast they are... and there's simply no responsible way to take a car like a ZL1 to 100% on public roads.

It's easier than it's ever been to get on actual tracks (drag or roadrace) with street cars, and it usually costs less than a speeding ticket. So get out there...

100% this, but I have zero respect for Mr. Whole as a car guy.

As a person in the medical field I have 100% respect for him.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by Nothing

Except in this neck of the woods, we don't have tracks anymore, they all closed!!!!!

Lime Rock
New Jersey Motorsports Park
Pocono
Palmer Motorsports Park

All under 200 miles from Long Island...

I didn't say it was as easy as going to McDonalds. Our closest track is ~100 miles, and we regularly travel 300-400 miles for a track weekend. But it's a hell of a lot better than it was 30 years ago.

The number of tracks we have to choose from within a day's drive has nearly tripled in the last 30 years. And the opportunites to get on track with a street car are far better now than then.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Rodan

I have a lot more respect for a slow guy who actually takes it to the track than I do for internet bench racers proclaiming how fast they are... and there's simply no responsible way to take a car like a ZL1 to 100% on public roads.

It's easier than it's ever been to get on actual tracks (drag or roadrace) with street cars, and it usually costs less than a speeding ticket. So get out there...

Highlighted for emphasis!!