[TRich2SS]

Originally Posted by EFI Tuning

I'm only replying to Ted's thread to address TRich2SS's question

The tune I provide has a 93 octane calibration in it. "Refine" is the proper way to put it in my opinion. If you never touch a dyno you have nothing to stress about. Your car will run very well. If you want to get every last bit out of your specific engine under your environmental conditions then dyno and/or track tweaking is the next stop. There is really no other way around it if you want to extract everything you can.

Without getting too deep on how it all works there is some dependency on the 93 octane tune. I created a Matlab script to take all of the various tables used for spark and generate the "final" spark table. You can't just look at the base high octane table and know what your final timing advance number will be for a given RPM and airmass.

Anyways...sorry Ted

Thanks for the explanation Tim as always.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Daniel20162ss

As ultra said, with the 32 additional fuel lobe, would it be a safe possibility to have full bolt ons, cam/heads and running e85 without fuel issues on otherwise stock fuel system

It all comes down to how much liquid fuel you need to make X HP.

On gasoline engine N/A it takes 0.44 lb of fuel per hour to make 1 HP.

On Alcohol it take about 1 lb of fuel per hour to make 1 HP.

So you can see how the mixture of the 2 determines how much liquid fuel you need to make X HP.

There is a Hard limit on the HPFP first then the injectors of how many lb of fuel per hour it will flow.

The Lobe helps raise that ceiling a bit but I don't know the exact math at this time.

Never Shortcut a fuel system it will bite you in the ass, Engines cost more than fuel pumps and injectors.

Ted.

[JFM-jr]

Interesting so in theory on "E100" its a hair over double the fuel demand of pump fuel if I am reading this correctly?

[Shaq74]

Originally Posted by EFI Tuning

I'm only replying to Ted's thread to address TRich2SS's question

The tune I provide has a 93 octane calibration in it. "Refine" is the proper way to put it in my opinion. If you never touch a dyno you have nothing to stress about. Your car will run very well. If you want to get every last bit out of your specific engine under your environmental conditions then dyno and/or track tweaking is the next stop. There is really no other way around it if you want to extract everything you can.

Without getting too deep on how it all works there is some dependency on the 93 octane tune. I created a Matlab script to take all of the various tables used for spark and generate the "final" spark table. You can't just look at the base high octane table and know what your final timing advance number will be for a given RPM and airmass.

Anyways...sorry Ted

Matlab?
Aw dang, I imagine how tedious that must have been

[jwdominick]

Good info in this thread. I plan to test the limits of the fuel system on e85. I am procharged and have the flex fuel kit on my car. I am waiting on a zl1 intank pump I have on order then I will be working on max safe power with "e" .

I think somewhere in the low 6xx whp is very possible on e85 and the zl1 pump. Of course results will be posted.

[wbt2012]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Q. What needs to be done to the tune to enable Flex fuel capability?

A. A full custom tune must be made on the dyno first on 93 then enable the flex fuel sensor, the flex fuel timing and fueling tables must be set up as they are currently all Zeros.

This is my only disagreement but a great post overall. If one has a wideband installed I don't see a need for a dyno tune. Remote tuning with datalogs should suffice.

[JFM-jr]

This "30%" incrrased fuel consumption vs gasoline figure I see most use as a generalized reference is that based on 85% ethanol?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by jwdominick

Good info in this thread. I plan to test the limits of the fuel system on e85. I am procharged and have the flex fuel kit on my car. I am waiting on a zl1 intank pump I have on order then I will be working on max safe power with "e" .

I think somewhere in the low 6xx whp is very possible on e85 and the zl1 pump. Of course results will be posted.

I think you will find the limit much lower like low 500s.

Log low side fuel pressure, High side fuel pressure, and injector pulse width.

You should not exceed 6ms of pulse width at 7ms they will misfire.

High side fuel pressure needs to stay flat any drops in fuel pressure are dangerous.

Low side fuel pressure will likely drop to 350 kpa or below with a target of 400 kpa

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by wbt2012

This is my only disagreement but a great post overall. If one has a wideband installed I don't see a need for a dyno tune. Remote tuning with datalogs should suffice.

You are correct, but keep in mind this post has to cover a wide variety of enthusiasts with differing skill sets and tools at their disposal.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

This "30%" incrrased fuel consumption vs gasoline figure I see most use as a generalized reference is that based on 85% ethanol?

Yes sir.

[JFM-jr]

Have you seen any positive effect in running an ethanol content of say 85% vs 70%? (NA)

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

Have you seen any positive effect in running an ethanol content of say 85% vs 70%? (NA)

it really comes down to engine modifications.

In a supercharged application with high boost, Yes sir.

Ted.

[Sixgunsled]

Ted can you expand how the computer can switch between 93 and e85? Or a mixture somewhere in between? I was under the impression that you had to have a 93 octane only tune and an e85 tune in which you would use a handheld to swap back and forth depending on what fuel you are using.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Sixgunsled

Ted can you expand how the computer can switch between 93 and e85? Or a mixture somewhere in between? I was under the impression that you had to have a 93 octane only tune and an e85 tune in which you would use a handheld to swap back and forth depending on what fuel you are using.

With the addition of the Flex fuel sensor and a custom tune activating the Flex fuel option in the computer.

With the sensor the computer can see the actual alcohol content, then adjust the stoich value and timing accordingly.

Those days are gone my friend of having to switch tunes and hope you have actual E-85.

Ted.