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Old 04-14-2022, 01:24 PM   #15
redcoats1976


 
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i imagine the selling point will be no trans to break,no valves ,just an electric motor the (problematic) batteries and whatever instrument panel/climate control is installed.as you pointed out the batteries will be the most expensive part and need replacing every 10-12 years.by the time all is said and done it will be 6 of one,half a dozen of the other.
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Old 04-14-2022, 01:41 PM   #16
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I'ma just gonna quote myself from another thread:

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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
If you want to discuss EVs...

It's very hard to say, since batteries aren't going to realistically get any significant improvements. I personally think BEVs, (P)HEVs and ICEVs will live alongside each other for a good while. Maybe ICEVs will be phased out, but (P)HEVs, no.

The trouble with batteries is that it is not just hitting some technical bottlenecks(better, cheaper materials, etc.), it's starting to hit physical(breaks the laws of physics) bottlenecks.

Lithium batteries are as troublesome as they are when they fail. Basically when EVs catch fire, the current solution is to... Just wait it out. Now imagine bigger and more frequent fires with the higher energy density batteries. Just safety alone makes such a battery impractical since it is closer to a grenade than it is to a battery. One of the reasons why solid state batteries are eternally "five years away" is because the problem with stability, not to mention cost and other such things. Now Toyota is saying that they are going to make solid state batteries happen in their production cars, but if solid state batteries are happening in a practical form, I would expect a much bigger buzz from the tech world. I will believe it when I see it.

(Just in case someone asks, hydrocarbon fuels have high energy density, yes, but they require oxygen to really be able to do any damage. This makes them a lot more manageable than batteries where all you need to start a fire with is a short.)

FCEV is another idea but that has its own share of technical challenges, and since most hydrogen in the world is made from steam reformation of natural gas, the emission problems are still present, let alone the transportations and storage emissions.
I used to dump on fuel cells a lot but after knowing that batteries probably won't get any better? It's not that bad of an idea.

And I think we are probably beginning to hit the plateau for battery prices. Some of that already comes from unethical slave labours so not sure how much lower can the cost go. At some point, you gotta pay for the labour and such properly.

Of course EV has some uses but jumping straight into it is not gonna happen. Again, why (P)HEV is just being glossed over is beyond me.
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Old 04-14-2022, 03:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Chrome383Z View Post
Cool tech, fast as hell given the weight..

My concern for the car scene in general is that the days of buying a ss and modding it to higher performance is over. That is sad. With EV you pay for what you get.
The Tesla aftermarket support has been growing. You can do quite a bit to the suspension and brakes but the powertrain is off limits unless you want to roll the dice. Some companies have boost kits where you plug in a device and it unlocks about 50hp assuming you have the right model of the electric motor.

But yes, in general, the whole powertrain modding scene is pretty much done. It will be like RC cars where you swap in batteries, inverters and drive units but very costly to do so and you need lots of software.

One of the reason I sold my Tesla Model 3 Performance is because the car is so locked down. You can't even spin the tires. No nanny controls, no drive mode, no adaptive suspension, etc.

Eventually we will get performance based EVs for enthusiasts but if you are a fan of exhaust note, shifting gears, etc. it will never be the same. Watch the Tesla Model S Plaid videos, it is the more uneventful 9 second 1/4 mile you will every experience. The EVs are so smooth that they actually ruin a lot of the enjoyment for enthusiasts. No drama to tickle the senses. Just instant, silent torque.
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Old 04-14-2022, 03:25 PM   #18
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I'm cool with electric cars. I'll probably never own one, but they don't bother me. I have around 1400-RWHP now, I'll have ~2000-RWHP within a year. So, I'm good on mods and I'm not really worried about EVs being faster.
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Old 04-14-2022, 03:49 PM   #19
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My big issue with EV, is there are many questions and no solutions.

Forced switch to EV is like quitting heroin cold. Its just not that simple. There are things to consider and do before you can get to that point, and the EV industry is just not there, let alone is the infrastructure there to support it.

Example: In Detroit, MI they want to develop charge as you drive roads. Why? Most people in Detroit couldn't afford an EV anyways? Not to mention location is everything. Charge as you go roads should be major highways. Now add to the fact just how effective that system is going to be? Lack of charging stations is a big factor as well. So are only Major cities allow to charge as they drive? Here's a better question why hasn't anyone developed a self charging EV motor yet? I heard rumors Chevy might be working on it.
It gets better when you figure in the US power grid, right now there are times of day that parts of California don't allow high-power appliances to run. Then figure in most of the charging stations have diesel backup for charging the cars. It starts to make you wonder if anyone has thought about this before pushing people to go all EV. I don't have a problem with EV cars but I'm not sold on the execution of the overall plan...
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Old 04-14-2022, 04:18 PM   #20
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We've had three Bolt EVs since 2017. Loved each one of them, they are the most practical "in town" car ever. A blast to drive, tiny to park, lots of useable space. They're just great. Unless you get one with a battery that *might* burn to the ground while parked under a condo building without warning. It's a tiny fraction of the cars that have the problem, but there's no way to figure out which ones will burn. Of course, you'll feel better after the tech at your dealership swaps out the battery in your $40k EV with a new and improved battery.



Today, our main cars are a Camaro and a Corolla Cross. Why? Charging on a road trip, in the southeast, while much faster today than it was four years ago, is still too slow. It also requires planning from station to station. Gas doesn't.



My father has and loves Teslas. The driving experience is simply magical. But, one got hit and sat for MONTHS waiting on 1) parts, 2) someone qualified to repair it. Not many people can absorb that.


I believe we will all have EVs, and we will all love them, eventually. But those of us into muscle will keep collecting gas burners, and enjoying them.
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Old 04-14-2022, 04:20 PM   #21
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Blaqwhole entering in 3.......2.......1.......
Sorry I'm late...

This topic has been beat to death. Along with topics like "Markups", "Where's my order", etc. Everything that needs to be said has neen said over and over and over and over again. Why anyone is still bringing it up is beyond me. Either we're all doomed and society will collapse into despair and crime as darkness envelopes entire cities because the "grid" is overloaded...or EVs will push us to new heights of car performance that gas powered vehicles cannot attain. Whatever. The only difference for me between now and then is that I'll go from owning some of the fastest gas powered Muscle Cars to owning some of the fastest EV cars.
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Old 04-14-2022, 04:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
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It gets better when you figure in the US power grid, right now there are times of day that parts of California don't allow high-power appliances to run. Then figure in most of the charging stations have diesel backup for charging the cars. It starts to make you wonder if anyone has thought about this before pushing people to go all EV. I don't have a problem with EV cars but I'm not sold on the execution of the overall plan...
That's where I am. Most people I talk to are of the same opinion. We are not against EV.

1. Affordability
2. Infrastructure
3. Practicality - "Do you REALLY think oil companies are going to let this happen with no market for their product?"

Until all those are 100% accounted for, there is no ripping the bandaid off like some people expect to happen.

I'm all for the environment, but the push is a little off base with no plan of action.

I guess that is what truly defines the difference between an idealist and a realist.
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Old 04-14-2022, 05:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor5244 View Post
The Tesla aftermarket support has been growing. You can do quite a bit to the suspension and brakes but the powertrain is off limits unless you want to roll the dice. Some companies have boost kits where you plug in a device and it unlocks about 50hp assuming you have the right model of the electric motor.

But yes, in general, the whole powertrain modding scene is pretty much done. It will be like RC cars where you swap in batteries, inverters and drive units but very costly to do so and you need lots of software.

One of the reason I sold my Tesla Model 3 Performance is because the car is so locked down. You can't even spin the tires. No nanny controls, no drive mode, no adaptive suspension, etc.

Eventually we will get performance based EVs for enthusiasts but if you are a fan of exhaust note, shifting gears, etc. it will never be the same. Watch the Tesla Model S Plaid videos, it is the more uneventful 9 second 1/4 mile you will every experience. The EVs are so smooth that they actually ruin a lot of the enjoyment for enthusiasts. No drama to tickle the senses. Just instant, silent torque.
Excellent answer. It’s definitely going to be interesting.
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Old 04-14-2022, 05:08 PM   #24
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First, anyone who thinks EVs prohibit them from modifying or recalibrating their cars hasn't built a personal computer.

You will have hardware choices for upgrades and anyone that can recalibrate an ICE will learn to do it for EVs.

How do you guys think Tesla continues to add performance and range? Over the air programming to existing cars. It's just software so you too will have those choices. And just like adding hp in an ICE with a "tune" that trades off durability for HP you will have those choices with an EV.

Hardware? Once the volumes are there, you will be able to upgrade on every level from components to modules.

It will be exactly the same, just the parts you are changing, upgrading are different. But i expect you will be able to have choices to upgrade performance and range.

From a performance car standpoint, it's simply NVH and charging time. Those are the last frontiers and the noise can be faked as it is in many cars today.
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Old 04-14-2022, 05:29 PM   #25
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First, anyone who thinks EVs prohibit them from modifying or recalibrating their cars hasn't built a personal computer.

You will have hardware choices for upgrades and anyone that can recalibrate an ICE will learn to do it for EVs.

How do you guys think Tesla continues to add performance and range? Over the air programming to existing cars. It's just software so you too will have those choices. And just like adding hp in an ICE with a "tune" that trades off durability for HP you will have those choices with an EV.

Hardware? Once the volumes are there, you will be able to upgrade on every level from components to modules.

It will be exactly the same, just the parts you are changing, upgrading are different. But i expect you will be able to have choices to upgrade performance and range.

From a performance car standpoint, it's simply NVH and charging time. Those are the last frontiers and the noise can be faked as it is in many cars today.
I tried telling them all this months ago...
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:08 PM   #26
redcoats1976


 
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i personally would like to have a stylish 2 door EV...but first i have to use up all the good left in my 2015 RS and my wifes 2018 civic coupe.i just cant see selling the paid off cars i have that run well to make payments on another car,seems kind of wasteful.
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:35 PM   #27
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I wish people would stop perpetuating the falsehood that all EVs are quick or fast. The high powered, very expensive ones are quick off the line and only some of those are actually quick by performance ICE standards from a roll (look at trap speed data for proof). Case in point: The Hummer EV - it's very quick off the line due to 1200 ft-lbs of torque and AWD, and thus, it does 0-60 in 3.0 sec. After that it trails off significantly and only traps 105 mph in the 1/4 mile (I think top speed is 106) despite having 1000 hp. Yes, it's a massive, heavy truck. But 105 mph isn't blowing the doors off any modern GT or SS from a roll, much less a ZL1 or GT500. Despite beating all of them from a dig.

The 835 hp Rivian R1T traps 110 mph. Quick, but again, that's about like a stock 5th gen SS from a roll.

EVs feel quick because they have instant torque that hits hard. Yes, I've ridden in a Model S Plaid. It's very quick everywhere (traps 151 mph in the 1/4 mile). But that's the exception not the rule. The Taycan Turbo S is also very quick from a roll (130 mph trap speed).

It's easy to make hp with electric motors because they don't have emissions standards to meet. Want more power? Add a motor and higher capacity battery.

The Hummer is essentially an LS1 F-body above 60 mph, but with 1200 ft-lbs of torque. Don't race one off the line though!

Edited to add: The Tesla Model 3 dual motor performance (top of the line Model 3) traps 114-115 mph. But it costs around $65k for entry. So, approximately SS rolling acceleration performance for ZL1 money. Also, look at the trap speeds of cheaper EVs (hint: they are much slower).
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:53 PM   #28
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i personally would like to have a stylish 2 door EV...but first i have to use up all the good left in my 2015 RS and my wifes 2018 civic coupe.i just cant see selling the paid off cars i have that run well to make payments on another car,seems kind of wasteful.
I want a small S10 size reg cab EV truck with 400hp . I would trade my EV for one today if there was a small 2 door truck.
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