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Old 11-15-2023, 04:00 PM   #1387
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post
I've worked with MANY apartment complexes and a lot of them have spent significant time and money to REMOVE any outdoor water hookups and electric outlets over the years because of abuse.
BAH! ...let the poor people settle for fee based fast charging. They can't afford EVs anyways.
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Old 11-15-2023, 04:05 PM   #1388
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So what do theses brands have in common?

Ford, Toyota, Chevrolet, Honda, Nissan, Kia, and Hyundai.
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Old 11-16-2023, 12:33 AM   #1389
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
So what do theses brands have in common?

Ford, Toyota, Chevrolet, Honda, Nissan, Kia, and Hyundai.

They have 4 wheels.
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Old 11-16-2023, 02:25 AM   #1390
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Originally Posted by Christian1LE View Post
Enjoy it while it lasts, although I dont think the world is going 100% electric anytime soon. Will take time to ramp up the production to have enough Lithium to produce all the batteries. We will see, maybe we can have some sort of hybrid future.
Yes you’re right, I agree with you
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:29 AM   #1391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
So what do theses brands have in common?

Ford, Toyota, Chevrolet, Honda, Nissan, Kia, and Hyundai.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIs View Post
They have 4 wheels.
Good answer, but not what the judges are looking for. Also, some Fords and Chevrolets have 6 wheels.

The answer the judges are looking for is that those are the only brands that sell more vehicles than Tesla in the US in 2023.
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:43 AM   #1392
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Let's talk rebate again. Am I reading this right that in the new year the $7500 just comes off the vehicle price at sale versus off your tax liability (assuming it's 7,500 or more) when you file?
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:29 AM   #1393
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Originally Posted by snizzle View Post
Let's talk rebate again. Am I reading this right that in the new year the $7500 just comes off the vehicle price at sale versus off your tax liability (assuming it's 7,500 or more) when you file?
Not quite that simple, but close.

1st the car has to qualify. Many will NOT qualify. Some will qualify for half the incentive. Some will qualify for the entire incentive.
  • Car and Battery Pack must be manufactured in North America
  • Cars must have MSRP at or below $55,000. Trucks and Utes must have MSRP under $80,000 [big reason for Tesla price drops]
  • Nickel, Cobalt, Lithium, Manganese, and Graphite used in the battery cells have to be sourced from North America or countries with which the US has Free Trade Agreements (worth half the incentive, assuming everything above is true)
  • Anode Active Material and Cathode Active Material have to be sourced from North American sources or from countries with which the US has Free Trade Agreements. (worth half the incentive, assuming first two bullet points are true)


2nd, the buyer(s) must qualify within income thresholds established by filing status.
  • Single buyer: Income $150,000 or less
  • Head of Household: $225,000 or less
  • Married Filing Jointly: $300,000 or less

There are two differences moving from 2023 to 2024.

In 2023, the buyer had to buy the vehicle, file taxes, and apply for the incentive as a refund. In 2024 the buyer can assign the incentive to the deal, assuming all the qualifications listed above are met.

The requirements for materials sourcing had a lower threshold for 2023. For example, in 2023 Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are eligible for the full refund of $7,500. But since some of their Anode Active Material and Cathode Active Material are sourced from countries that do not have FTA with the US, they don’t qualify for that half of the incentive come January 1, 2024. Big factor in the timing of my purchase.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:39 AM   #1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Not quite that simple, but close.

1st the car has to qualify. Many will NOT qualify. Some will qualify for half the incentive. Some will qualify for the entire incentive.
  • Car and Battery Pack must be manufactured in North America
  • Cars must have MSRP at or below $55,000. Trucks and Utes must have MSRP under $80,000 [big reason for Tesla price drops]
  • Nickel, Cobalt, Lithium, Manganese, and Graphite used in the battery cells have to be sourced from North America or countries with which the US has Free Trade Agreements (worth half the incentive, assuming everything above is true)
  • Anode Active Material and Cathode Active Material have to be sourced from North American sources or from countries with which the US has Free Trade Agreements. (worth half the incentive, assuming first two bullet points are true)


2nd, the buyer(s) must qualify within income thresholds established by filing status.
  • Single buyer: Income $150,000 or less
  • Head of Household: $225,000 or less
  • Married Filing Jointly: $300,000 or less

There are two differences moving from 2023 to 2024.

In 2023, the buyer had to buy the vehicle, file taxes, and apply for the incentive as a refund. In 2024 the buyer can assign the incentive to the deal, assuming all the qualifications listed above are met.

The requirements for materials sourcing had a lower threshold for 2023. For example, in 2023 Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are eligible for the full refund of $7,500. But since some of their Anode Active Material and Cathode Active Material are sourced from countries that do not have FTA with the US, they don’t qualify for that half of the incentive come January 1, 2024. Big factor in the timing of my purchase.
How convoluted everything has become. We're going to need a team of CPAs and legal experts just to buy a vehicle soon, lol.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:48 AM   #1395
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post
How convoluted everything has become. We're going to need a team of CPAs and legal experts just to buy a vehicle soon, lol.
Not that complicated. The focus of this part of the Inflation Reduction Act is to make certain that as EVs become a bigger part of the landscape, the jobs associated with producing them come from the US instead of China, Japan, Europe, et cetera.

First, the cars have to be made in the US, Canada or Mexico. That brings those jobs and jobs at key suppliers here.

Second, all the requirements for material sourcing are positioned to make certain China doesn’t benefit from the growth of EV manufacturing in North America. There are other areas in the IRA that help offset the cost of building capacity for materials processing, battery cell manufacture, and battery pack assembly. Again, more jobs involved in the construction of these plants as well as the staffing.
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Old 11-16-2023, 10:17 AM   #1396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Not quite that simple, but close.

1st the car has to qualify. Many will NOT qualify. Some will qualify for half the incentive. Some will qualify for the entire incentive.
  • Car and Battery Pack must be manufactured in North America
  • Cars must have MSRP at or below $55,000. Trucks and Utes must have MSRP under $80,000 [big reason for Tesla price drops]
  • Nickel, Cobalt, Lithium, Manganese, and Graphite used in the battery cells have to be sourced from North America or countries with which the US has Free Trade Agreements (worth half the incentive, assuming everything above is true)
  • Anode Active Material and Cathode Active Material have to be sourced from North American sources or from countries with which the US has Free Trade Agreements. (worth half the incentive, assuming first two bullet points are true)


2nd, the buyer(s) must qualify within income thresholds established by filing status.
  • Single buyer: Income $150,000 or less
  • Head of Household: $225,000 or less
  • Married Filing Jointly: $300,000 or less

There are two differences moving from 2023 to 2024.

In 2023, the buyer had to buy the vehicle, file taxes, and apply for the incentive as a refund. In 2024 the buyer can assign the incentive to the deal, assuming all the qualifications listed above are met.

The requirements for materials sourcing had a lower threshold for 2023. For example, in 2023 Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are eligible for the full refund of $7,500. But since some of their Anode Active Material and Cathode Active Material are sourced from countries that do not have FTA with the US, they don’t qualify for that half of the incentive come January 1, 2024. Big factor in the timing of my purchase.
Is that gross income? Adjusted gross? Taxable income after deductions? Based on last year's return? Can next year's income be higher than what would qualify? One and done when purchasing? Bring old tax return to dealership? What if current year is going to be higher income than last return?

Can a lower income buyer immediately resell it to someone who doesn't qualify?... Just curious...
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Old 11-16-2023, 10:33 AM   #1397
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Is that gross income? Adjusted gross? Taxable income after deductions? Based on last year's return? Can next year's income be higher than what would qualify? One and done when purchasing? Bring old tax return to dealership? What if current year is going to be higher income than last return?

Can a lower income buyer immediately resell it to someone who doesn't qualify?... Just curious...
ah yes... let us begin gaming the system of having the goverment defining winners and losers in the marketplace.

If i buy a car without a rebate and flip it around for sale immediately, will I lose the full $7500 off the top even though I never received it? (answer: YES, the goverment rebate is factored into the resale price)
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Old 11-16-2023, 11:40 AM   #1398
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Originally Posted by Capricio View Post
ah yes... let us begin gaming the system of having the goverment defining winners and losers in the marketplace.

If i buy a car without a rebate and flip it around for sale immediately, will I lose the full $7500 off the top even though I never received it? (answer: YES, the goverment rebate is factored into the resale price)
That ship has sailed unfortunately. Take a look at the size and scope of said gov. Drastic measures needed to scale back and the folks in charge have no motivation to do so.

That being said, i'll take the $7,500 if we buy an EV since it was my money confiscated anyway.
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Old 11-16-2023, 11:43 AM   #1399
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Originally Posted by snizzle View Post
That ship has sailed unfortunately. Take a look at the size and scope of said gov. Drastic measures needed to scale back and the folks in charge have no motivation to do so.

That being said, i'll take the $7,500 if we buy an EV since it was my money confiscated anyway.
Yes, exactly, my point is the subsidy is already factored into the resale of a qualified vehicle whether you qualify as a buyer or not. So, if you don't qualify, you either find a loophole (qualified proxy buyer) or you buy something else. As you said, the government will eat that depreciation at taxpayers' expense.
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Old 11-17-2023, 07:46 AM   #1400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
those are the only brands that sell more vehicles than Tesla in the US in 2023.
Not to be knit-picky, but GM is the brand. Chevrolet is a division.

If you compare brands GM outsells Tesla by a boatload.
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