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Old 10-14-2019, 08:34 AM   #15
Checkmate1
 
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^ Agreed. All that hype about the 10speed was unfounded. The lightning lap at a massive track like VIR proves that the MT was engineered to perfection.

Keep buying Manuals folks..and save the last bastion of involvement.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkmate1 View Post
^ Agreed. All that hype about the 10speed was unfounded. The lightning lap at a massive track like VIR proves that the MT was engineered to perfection.

Keep buying Manuals folks..and save the last bastion of involvement.
I see it differently, 10 yrs ago an American auto would have been a loser around the track. The lap time at VIR is telling us pick your tranny of choice the lap time wont suffer.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkmate1 View Post
^ Agreed. All that hype about the 10speed was unfounded. The lightning lap at a massive track like VIR proves that the MT was engineered to perfection.

Keep buying Manuals folks..and save the last bastion of involvement.
Maybe one lap. Who tracks cars for 1 lap or races one lap?
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:02 AM   #18
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You'd get 9 laps in a 25min session, so equal drivers would amount to a 6s advantage. The intangible advantage is how much more difficult it is to manually shift consistently for 25min. So that 6s might turn in to quite a bit more. With all that said, who cares in the end? Track days are supposed to be fun and noncompetitive (even though I often struggle with that concept, ha!).
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND View Post
Maybe one lap. Who tracks cars for 1 lap or races one lap?
Question is how many of these owners actually hit the track to begin with.

The C/D lap is the 'best' of 5 laps from what I understand.

My only premise is 'engagement' be it for the street or track for which there is no substitute for a manual. Again, just my 2 cents and not trying to convert anyone.

I for one do not engage in roll racing or drag times (ZL1 1LE would be the wrong trim for both those things).

For road courses (HPDE's), the objective is to enjoy the car and get 'your' personal bests.

Having a Manual car makes you enjoy those 20 odd minutes where you are the one engaging the car in executing perfect heel/toe and getting your line right. A manual truly makes you in sync with the drivetrain as opposed to simply flipping a paddle.

Flipping a paddle (to me) make sense in competitive racing where every 10th matters. However, there are no prizes in HPDE events.

I don't want to derail this thread as this is not a MT vs Auto debate. I am thankful Chevy gives us 2 great options.

Consider me old skool I suppose where 'involvement' matters as opposed to paddle shift, point and shoot.

Cheers.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:48 AM   #20
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I think the fact that the auto was able to run the same speed would ave been a victory for it, I wonder what the transmission temps will be after a prolonged session.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkmate1 View Post
Question is how many of these owners actually hit the track to begin with.

The C/D lap is the 'best' of 5 laps from what I understand.

My only premise is 'engagement' be it for the street or track for which there is no substitute for a manual. Again, just my 2 cents and not trying to convert anyone.

I for one do not engage in roll racing or drag times (ZL1 1LE would be the wrong trim for both those things).

For road courses (HPDE's), the objective is to enjoy the car and get 'your' personal bests.

Having a Manual car makes you enjoy those 20 odd minutes where you are the one engaging the car in executing perfect heel/toe and getting your line right. A manual truly makes you in sync with the drivetrain as opposed to simply flipping a paddle.

Flipping a paddle (to me) make sense in competitive racing where every 10th matters. However, there are no prizes in HPDE events.

I don't want to derail this thread as this is not a MT vs Auto debate. I am thankful Chevy gives us 2 great options.

Consider me old skool I suppose where 'involvement' matters as opposed to paddle shift, point and shoot.

Cheers.
I support your cause (saving the manuals). That's all I've tracked to date (besides off road track days in my ZR2 truck). However, I've personally decided to spend some time with autos and dual clutch, mainly because it appears the C8 Z06 I'm waiting on might not have a manual. I'm anxious to see if I'll enjoy focusing on the other aspects of track driving. I do think I'll miss hill/toe downshifts though, but those have been gone since C7 vettes and 6th gen camaros I believe (can you turn the rev matching off?).
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:43 AM   #22
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I miss the manual but only when I think back on my manual C6Z. I didn't miss it on track with my ZL1 A10 yet. If I could have a track only car I'd prefer a manual but so far I'm liking the A10 on track. It allows me to focus on learning this car the other aspects of driving. On the street I love the A10.
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:25 PM   #23
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Great read!
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:42 PM   #24
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Obviously this guy is a rookie/non pro track driver. This guy drives like people I see going to work in the morning. If he were a pro he wouldn't be slowing down so soon on the curves. Plus the guy is driving an automatic. Lets face it guys this sh!t is just boring to even watch.

Want to see some real ZL1 excitement?....Then watch this as many of you have already seen and he's driving a manual.


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Old 10-14-2019, 11:03 PM   #25
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The manual has many laps at VIR... Didn't take the A10 long to immediately best that time.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mlee View Post
The manual has many laps at VIR... Didn't take the A10 long to immediately best that time.
Yes....by a measly .7 on a huge track like VIR with appropriate curves.

MT - 2:45.7
Auto - 2:45

That was also with Bill Wise (Nurburgring Test Driver) consistently pushing the C&D driver to the maximum.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:16 PM   #27
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2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE at Lightning Lap 2019
Yes, we've lapped a ZL1 1LE before, but now it's available with 10-speed automatic transmission.

Lap Time: 2:45.0

Class: LL3 | Base: $74,190 | As-Tested: $76,380
Power and Weight: 650 hp • 3880 lb • 6.0 lb/hp
Tires: Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3R, F:305/30ZR-19 (98Y) TPC R: 325/30ZR-19 (101Y) TPC




"Didn't you test a Camaro ZL1 1LE two years ago?" Yes, but that was the manual 1LE. This one is an automatic, and this year, Bill Wise came along to see if we could improve on the 1LE's 2:45.7 with the new 10-speed. If you don't know Wise, he's the guy who, in addition to tuning the Camaro, set the ZL1 1LE's 7:16.04 Nürburgring time. With his pointers—it was a lot of him diplomatically telling us to stop being wusses and go faster in the Climbing Esses—we pushed the automatic-equipped 1LE to a 2:45.0 lap, 0.7 second quicker than the manual's best run.

A supercharged V-8 with 650 horsepower and torque means the Camaro really doesn't need 10 gears, but the shifts are so quick and the programming is so spot on that it picks the perfect gear while you're concentrating on braking. There's no need to go to the paddles.

Not having to shift gave us more time to fully appreciate those brakes. They're regular cast-iron rotors clamped by six-piston calipers up front and four-pot grabbers in back, no carbon-ceramics here. Wise tells us he tuned the system to provide full stopping power even after a hard, initial stomp. At triple-digit speeds, most street cars like to be eased (quickly) into full braking, not jumped on. That's not the case with the 1LE. The Camaro allows for a swift kick to the wide pedal. Coupled with the Goodyear gumballs made just for this car, it's almost as if you can't brake late enough. No complaints about brake-pedal travel this time around.

As in the manual version, we found that the stability control's performance modes cut in too much when you go to accelerate out of slow corners. Our solution: Turn everything off. In that all-off mode, you become acutely aware of the car's incredible horsepower and learn to respect it and carefully roll into the throttle pedal. Stomp to slow; carefully roll to go. That's the mantra this car demands.

Full results of the Lightning Lap 2019 Competition: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2019/

Must be Bill Wise on Prozac. He's no where near pushing it like he did in the 6 speed ZL1. Those are the same guys...right.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:42 PM   #28
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Tony Quiroga was same driver for C&D for M6 and A10.
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