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Old 10-04-2023, 12:54 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TheEnthusiast View Post
Pretty sure the Manual LT1's are underrated when they claim crank hp. The Manual LT1's consistently dyno from 420whp to 440whp. That's about 480 or more crank. At least that's what RPM seems to get out of them on their baseline pulls.
They are not, they are SAE certified.
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Old 10-04-2023, 09:14 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
They are not, they are SAE certified.
Exactly, they are SAE certified and correctly done dyno pulls indicate the LT1 like all the GM s
SAE certified V8s come in about 390 to 405 RWHP which equates to the 455 - 460 flywheel GM rating.
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Old 10-04-2023, 11:26 AM   #87
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I have seen many stock dyno pulls on manual and auto trans LT1 camaro's and have never seen a bone stock fully warmed up LT1 dyno anywhere near 420 rwhp. 390 to 405 is a very realistic range for a proper no BS dyno pull.
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Originally Posted by lt4camaro View Post
Exactly, they are SAE certified and correctly done dyno pulls indicate the LT1 like all the GM s
SAE certified V8s come in about 390 to 405 RWHP which equates to the 455 - 460 flywheel GM rating.

^THIS
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Old 10-04-2023, 11:50 AM   #88
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I don’t think the manual transmission camaros are underrated either. Manuals are showing 9 to 10% driveline losses while autos are around 15 to 16%. You may see some factory freaks though, very rare.
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Old 10-04-2023, 01:30 PM   #89
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Well I guess RPM's Dyno read's stupid high then. I've seen multiple baseline pulls on their youtube channel 420+ for the Manual SS's bone stock.

Example:

429whp before mods

Another Example:

440whp before mods
Pull before that 436whp
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Old 10-04-2023, 01:45 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by ALMN View Post
I don’t think the manual transmission camaros are underrated either. Manuals are showing 9 to 10% driveline losses while autos are around 15 to 16%. You may see some factory freaks though, very rare.
Even then, to be fully SAE J1349 certified, there is only a "window" of variance that's allowed. I'm not completely sure, but I think its something like +/- 1 to 2%.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnthusiast View Post
Well I guess RPM's Dyno read's stupid high then. I've seen multiple baseline pulls on their youtube channel 420+ for the Manual SS's bone stock.

Example:

429whp before mods

Another Example:

440whp before mods
Pull before that 436whp
People often forget that these tuners all have to try to keep correction factors for fuels used, environmental differences, etc. in line all the time. The tools are good for seeing gains from mods but not for judging the engine's "actual output". The SAE tests are done in a much more controlled environment and are much more useful when used in comparisons between vehicles.
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Old 10-04-2023, 01:59 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by crysalis_01 View Post
Even then, to be fully SAE J1349 certified, there is only a "window" of variance that's allowed. I'm not completely sure, but I think its something like +/- 1 to 2%.




People often forget that these tuners all have to try to keep correction factors for fuels used, environmental differences, etc. in line all the time. The tools are good for seeing gains from mods but not for judging the engine's "actual output". The SAE tests are done in a much more controlled environment and are much more useful when used in comparisons between vehicles.
I agree with you. I just find it odd when these guys are guessing the baseline whp before adding mods / doing first pull, they are always guessing 420 to 450. That's a lot more than 455 crank.

I'm always in disbelief at the numbers they're throwing out there for guesses, then they do the pull and

They must be doing some baseline tuning to help get those numbers up and its not shown on video.
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Old 10-04-2023, 02:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnthusiast View Post
Well I guess RPM's Dyno read's stupid high then. I've seen multiple baseline pulls on their youtube channel 420+ for the Manual SS's bone stock.

Example:

429whp before mods

Another Example:

440whp before mods
Pull before that 436whp
fiquring a 12 % drivetrain power loss, 425 to 440 rwhp equates to roughly 476 to 493 flywheel horsepower. No way a bone stock LT1 camaro properly set up on the dyno and on a fully warmed up engine will generate those flywheel horsepower #s
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Old 10-04-2023, 05:00 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnthusiast View Post
Well I guess RPM's Dyno read's stupid high then. I've seen multiple baseline pulls on their youtube channel 420+ for the Manual SS's bone stock.

Example:

429whp before mods

Another Example:

440whp before mods
Pull before that 436whp
Yes. RPM’s dyno I have noticed does read high. That being said their “gains” are correct meaning their “after” dyno numbers which show horsepower gained show the proper amount of horsepower gained for the mods they did.

Remember they are a race shop and have to sell their products and services so they may skew numbers a bit to make it look like their cars make more power than others.
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Old 11-15-2023, 07:08 PM   #94
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Actually saw a Dark Horse in Novi today. The owner has obviously been driving it...dirty.
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Old 11-16-2023, 11:39 AM   #95
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Actually saw a Dark Horse in Novi today. The owner has obviously been driving it...dirty.
Wow, just looking at the picture..that thing looks hideous. I’ve never been a huge fan of the 2015 and up Stangs, but that may be the worst of all (at least to my eyes). It looks overdone..
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