[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by MT-SS1LE

Bottom line is consumers DO NOT want EV's. Sure, you have yuppies buying Teslas, but that does not mean your working class American wants them. If they did, they would not be languishing on dealer lots (Ford F150 anyone). Americans want reliable and affordable transportation, and EV's ain't it. They can't tow much for long, they suck in cold weather, and you better budget $10K-$30K when the battery dies. If the government were not forcing the car manufacturers to produce these boring appliances due to global warming BS, they would only sell in California. It is absolutely laughable that the government thinks we will all be driving these boring, unreliable cars in 10 years. Never gonna happen!

I don't think it's true that people don't want EVs. I think there is actually a market for them, they're just currently too expensive for the average person. Throw out the SUV/Truck/performance cars.... most of these start in the general 35-50k range...

There aren't really any cheaper EV cars that are entry model. The few I would consider anywhere close to that, are tiny and really don't have a good range to be worth the expense.

I'd absolutely snag an EV for a DD for work/grocery getter if it was a 25-30k car... even if it only had a 200 mile range. The problem is again, they just aren't there..

As for the battery issue, I think that wasting all our resources to make batteries that will just simply be toxic waste is stupid. Forget the cost, we'd be better off just starting up a couple nuclear power plants instead of the EV craze because those batteries will be a nightmare on the environment in a few years.

That said, I do agree with everything else you are saying...

[SuperSnake1972]

I don't hate EVs, I just feel better when they're not around.

[Evergreen6]

This set of facts would indicate that someone's personal opinion of "consumers DO NOT want EV's" may be misinformed. It doesn't make it any truer when stated emphatically, either.

https://www.nada.org/nada/nada-headl...-2020-and-2022

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I've done the math and the power grid cannot handle the total replacement of ICE vehicles with EV's. There is no where near the capacity, especially if you want to charge in 1/2 hour and go.

Are you doing this calculation based on an additive / depletion model or are you assuming that the entire car parc shifts from ICE to BEV? The latter would take several decades. Barring significant medical advances none of us will be alive by then.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by The Maverick

I think the fair inference is that he was claiming that she was a diversity hire as CEO . . . so saying that she was qualified to be hired in her original position as an engineer doesn't really rebut his claim at all.

Okay, then let’s look at her qualifications from that point… Stanford MBA, led global manufacturing function for several years, led global product development for several years.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Silveradoss573

Just keep on drinking that kool-aid that Martin keeps serving up.😂

Y’all couldn’t handle my kool-aid.

[Capricio]

How about, "Consumers do not want enough EVs, by a large margin, to sustain the rate of production the regulatory state and the OEMs hope to push them out."?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MT-SS1LE

Bottom line is consumers DO NOT want EV's. Sure, you have yuppies buying Teslas, but that does not mean your working class American wants them. If they did, they would not be languishing on dealer lots (Ford F150 anyone).

Here’s the funniest part of the “languishing on dealer lots” trope. Most EVs that are sold in the US are not sold by dealers. Period. Tesla, Rivian, Lucid…none of them use dealers so there are none “languishing on dealer lots”. So, yeah…cars that aren’t sold at dealerships are languishing on dealer lots.

Only legacy automakers (Ford, GM, Hyundai-Kia, VW) use dealers. And other than the F150, Mach E, and a couple higher priced EVs that sell in double digits per year, they’re pretty much under 60 days inventory.

Originally Posted by MT-SS1LE

Americans want reliable and affordable transportation, and EV's ain't it. They can't tow much for long, they suck in cold weather, and you better budget $10K-$30K when the battery dies. If the government were not forcing the car manufacturers to produce these boring appliances due to global warming BS, they would only sell in California. It is absolutely laughable that the government thinks we will all be driving these boring, unreliable cars in 10 years. Never gonna happen!

Okay…800,000+ EVs sold in the US in 2022. About 1.4M sold in the US in 2023 (even though according to the languishing on lots people sales are dropping). Find me one person who bought an EV because they were forced to. And find me an automaker who is making EVs because they are forced to. I’ll wait.

[GreyGhost702]

Originally Posted by Capricio

How about, "Consumers do not want enough EVs, by a large margin, to sustain the rate of production the regulatory state and the OEMs hope to push them out."?

All you need to do is look at the politicians and their friends heavily invested in EV startups and EV suppliers to know why the heavy push for EV. Has nothing to do with running out of oil. Follow the money. It's a cash vacuum from both sides. One side sucking cash in the form of taxpayer paid (borrowed/printed) subsidies and the other side taxpayer consumerism. Yes, go buy the $80,000 EV you already paid for by forced taxation. All they need to do is let gas prices go to $10/gal and we'll be jumping like frogs on a hot plate into EV's. Once they get enough hooked up, then we start seeing $800/mo power bills... but at least you don't have that $400/mo gas bill over your head anymore

[Evergreen6]

That's such a weak/boring argument about the government when you consider federal subsidy of gasoline, diesel, and other fuels. If anyone thinks the government is "forcing" EV's upon people, uh, let's just lift up the big rocks and see what's crawling under those. "Oil" receives billions in subsidies, even in the best of best years when gas is at its highest prices and demand is the highest it's ever been. That's right...the US government helps you buy gas at the pump. Every. Drop.

Did anyone ever stop to think about logic about that? Does anyone who "hates EV's" ever get on a message board and bitch about that facet of the government-energy CF? That's how thinking people know the anti-EV zealots are blowing smoke when they pipe up to complain.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Okay…800,000+ EVs sold in the US in 2022. About 1.4M sold in the US in 2023 (even though according to the languishing on lots people sales are dropping). Find me one person who bought an EV because they were forced to. And find me an automaker who is making EVs because they are forced to. I’ll wait.

I would be willing to bet that most of the people buying them, make more than 150k a year. I would also be willing to bet that at least 50% of them are people who bought them because they aren't making long trips on a daily basis.

I think the Lucid cars are amazing, but for the price they're asking, I could actually buy a Z06, a trailer, and a truck to haul it...

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by The Maverick

I think the fair inference is that he was claiming that she was a diversity hire as CEO . . . so saying that she was qualified to be hired in her original position as an engineer doesn't really rebut his claim at all.

So the hiring of Waggoner, who oversaw the death of Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Saturn plus losing the sales lead to Toyota was what? A diversity hire for morons?

When the government says your CEO (a member of the superior gender according to some here) has to go before you get the
money, criticizing Barra all the time is pretty lame. She's navigating deep and stormy waters and keeping the ship afloat. Her predecessors were not.

[Evergreen6]

...You can buy a used Tesla for under $25k, $20k if you're looking hard. Bolts are around $30k nicely equipped.

If buying a $25k car is "yuppie" now, I guess that's evidence of how far America has fallen in thought since this is a room of people who bought a late model Chevy Camaro for anywhere between $20k to what... $90k?

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by Mid_Life_Crisis

If you have to plug-in for a charge to have freedom of travel you are in the hands of government..

Omg WHAT


So the government has control over electricity, but not oil? Do you understand how stupid this sounds?