[newmoon]

We are very shortly going to find out how magic the 6th Gen ZL1 is once the 500 is introduced and there is no more huge power advantage, let's see how it fares with a 100+hp deficit.

We already found out how magic the 6th Gen 1LE was once the GT finally got a set of tires under it with the PP2, the magic chassis was slower.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Maybe because the GT350R is a "track car" according to the people who manufacture it...

Ford can call it whatever they want, that’s irrelevant as they don’t write the definition. The definition was stipulated above and the R meets those requirements.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Motor Trend and Car and Driver both tested the ZL1 faster than the Z28 and the 5th gen ZL1 was $56k vs $75k for the Z28...$19k less.

You said it was $20K more expensive and 4 tenths slower. So if you were talking about the 5th Gen ZL1 then the Z28 was NOT 4 tenths slower...they were neck and neck. If you were talking about the 6th Gen ZL1 then the Z28 was NOT $20K more expensive. So you were wrong either way.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How would you all categorize the M5?

A 10 second sedan. I'd take a M5 over a Charger Hellcat or CTS-V for sure.

Originally Posted by newmoon

We are very shortly going to find out how magic the 6th Gen ZL1 is once the 500 is introduced and there is no more huge power advantage, let's see how it fares with a 100+hp deficit.

We already found out how magic the 6th Gen 1LE was once the GT finally got a set of tires under it with the PP2, the magic chassis was slower.

That was one track. I recall them being on a different track with the SLE going 0.6 seconds faster.

The magic ZLE even with less HP is going to murder the GT500 around a track. And even if it doesn't, the GT500 would have to come out in the same price range. With the GT350R vs the ZL1, the ZL1 was the cheaper car at MSRP. So is the GT500 going to be cheaper than the ZLE AND beat it around a track? THAT is the magic that is the ZLE. Ford is not going to be able to make the GT500 as capable as the ZLE and have full options and be cheaper no matter what they do. ZLE win!!

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How would you all categorize the M5?

An amazing car that with 4 doors, doesn't really match what I would call a traditional GT standard.

Originally Posted by newmoon

We are very shortly going to find out how magic the 6th Gen ZL1 is once the 500 is introduced and there is no more huge power advantage, let's see how it fares with a 100+hp deficit.

We already found out how magic the 6th Gen 1LE was once the GT finally got a set of tires under it with the PP2, the magic chassis was slower.

LoL at slower.... call me when they do a test same day and we'll talk. Add in the fact that after 2 laps the PP2 will be lucky if it isn't on the side of track from overheating. No one expects the base ZL1 to win, and I would be stunned if it did. However, it wont lose as bad as many predict either.

Also, given what...basically 4 years... I'm not surprised that Ford finally managed to cobble something together to match the 1LE. I mean they would even run the GT350 against it because they were so afraid of it losing..

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

No one expects the base ZL1 to win, and I would be stunned if it did. However, it wont lose as bad as many predict either.

I kinda do expect the standard ZL1 to beat the GT500 around a track. If it doesn't then you'd still have to factor that the standard ZL1 M6 is a $63K vehicle to the GT500 being a $75K (I predict) vehicle. The thing is the ZL1 beat the GT350R and the R was the pricier car at MSRP. The GT500 will be much more expensive than the 350R. And GM is known for beating cars that cost much more. Even performance related cars. So I do think the ZL1 will win because it is just that damn good a car. And no matter what happens it can't really lose anyway. It would be like the underdog taking on the champ...if the underdog wins it looks that much better...if the underdog loses, well it was supposed to lose anyway!!

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

We are very shortly going to find out how magic the 6th Gen ZL1 is once the 500 is introduced and there is no more huge power advantage, let's see how it fares with a 100+hp deficit.

We already found out how magic the 6th Gen 1LE was once the GT finally got a set of tires under it with the PP2, the magic chassis was slower.

Are you still using the LL as way to say the PP2 is faster then the 1le? those laps time have to be the last choice for anyone to to go by. Maybe that because that’s all you got, so your going to milk it out as much as you can.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Because the alpha is a superior platform. yes the 350R had a ton of advantages as a track car but the answer is in the alpha platform. The SS 1LE already was at near 5th gen Z/28 levels which put it right behind the 350R despite being down on power, so of course adding 200HP to that platform was going beat Ford's track car even in grand touring form. That's how good the alpha is

Yes. Power isn’t the deciding factor and the 2014 Z28 to GT500 comparison is meant to make that point.

For the record. I never speak about the upcoming GT500 vs ZL1 other than to make this point because Ford fans want it both ways.

I expect the GT500 TP to best the ZLE. They delayed the GT500 specifically to do so. Let hope it isn’t a half ass engineering solution like the PP2

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

5th gen to 5th gen, the Z/28 was lighter, had a light years better suspension set up, some of the best tires ever made, and carbon ceramic brakes. 5th gen GT500 beat the ZL1 on some tracks strictly because of the power advantage because that was really Ford's only option was to overpower the competition.

Now 6th gen to 6th gen, we saw the SS 1LE was right there behind the GT350R because it was damn near 5th gen Z/28 levels of performance and attribute most of that to the capabilites of the alpha platform. Adding 200 HP to that recipe shouldn't shock anyone it beat fords track car.

FYI - the gen5 Z/28 was only 13 pounds lighter than the GT500. As our Ford friends liked to point out, the gen5 was a big, heavy girl. Engineering made the later years achieve

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You all sound silly calling the ZL1 a "Grand Tourer" or "Touring Edition" car. We all know the ZL1 is a much more track focused car than the 13/14 GT500 ever was.

The V6 1LE is more track focused than the 13/14 GT500.

ZL1 = Triple threat. Street car that can be taken to the drag strip or road course. Then there is the track version. ZL1 1LE

Every performance intent Camaro is fully track capable. Chevy announced that they can all burn a full tank of fuel at 10/10 and not overheat. They did a great job with the entire line.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Yes. Power isn’t the deciding factor and the 2014 Z28 to GT500 comparison is meant to make that point.

For the record. I never speak about the upcoming GT500 vs ZL1 other than to make this point because Ford fans want it both ways.

I expect the GT500 TP to best the ZLE. They delayed the GT500 specifically to do so. Let hope it isn’t a half ass engineering solution like the PP2

I think the GT500 got delayed more so because Ford was spread too thin. And I'm betting there were lots of issues with the GT500 that they had to address and are still trying to fix. I think Ford has run out of time and it will be half-finished when it does come out. I think they will focus on staying close but they won't win. Or they will try to beat/match the Redeye and forget about trying to beat the ZLE.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Are you still using the LL as way to say the PP2 is faster then the 1le? those laps time have to be the last choice for anyone to to go by. Maybe that because that’s all you got, so your going to milk it out as much as you can.

And what reviewed laps would you like to use? Let me guess only the ones that favor the Camaro right

Funny how this forum loved the LL times until the PP2 beat the 1LE's time right. So predictable.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

And what reviewed laps would you like to use? Let me guess only the ones that favor the Camaro right

Funny how this forum loved the LL times until the PP2 beat the 1LE's time right. So predictable.

Try using Probst lap time at LS. Same driver. I don’t remember everyone bragging that the z28 was faster then the R at VIR.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I kinda do expect the standard ZL1 to beat the GT500 around a track. If it doesn't then you'd still have to factor that the standard ZL1 M6 is a $63K vehicle to the GT500 being a $75K (I predict) vehicle. The thing is the ZL1 beat the GT350R and the R was the pricier car at MSRP. The GT500 will be much more expensive than the 350R. And GM is known for beating cars that cost much more. Even performance related cars. So I do think the ZL1 will win because it is just that damn good a car. And no matter what happens it can't really lose anyway. It would be like the underdog taking on the champ...if the underdog wins it looks that much better...if the underdog loses, well it was supposed to lose anyway!!

I don't think the base GT500 will be anywhere near 75k, probably between 65-68k is my guess. While the 500 is impressive and faster than the GT350, it is not considered a limited run vehicle as its been in production for a long run. While there will be initial dealer markups I think they will be short lived and nothing like we have seen for the GT350. After 2020 the 350 may once again disappear for a long period of time.

Looking back there was only a $5,000.00 difference between the 2013 Boss LS and the GT500.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

And what reviewed laps would you like to use? Let me guess only the ones that favor the Camaro right

Funny how this forum loved the LL times until the PP2 beat the 1LE's time right. So predictable.

What is your opinion about comparison?

2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R, 2:51.8 - Lightning Lap
2015 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28, 2:50.9 - Lightning Lap