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Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM   #3529
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Originally Posted by Gunkk View Post
Well isn't everything (but the door switch) already 100% bespoke on the C8?

I would look at it another way: would the customer pay +$20k for a manual? Would they sell 5% * 40k cars * $20k = $40mil incremental revenue or just 1% more cars @ $8mil incremental? $40mil would easily cover costs and then some. $8mil not so much.

9/10ths a marketing weasel and a beancounter did the projections and probably came up at the lower end, so they killed it.
And there in lies the problem, what would people pay for it that it would justify it's existence.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM   #3530
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Originally Posted by 13vertss View Post
A auto ZL1 1LE is cheaper then a base GT500 with Recaros. plus the zl1 has more tech. If you add the tech package to the gt500 base, your near $4000 more then the 1le
And that ZLE is going to get embarrased on the street and strip, you know where people actually drive their cars. If your going to compare a ZL1 to a GT500 base, the ZL1 is a much better comparison, it actually wont throw your back out and rattle your dental fillings loose on the street, and it's faster.
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM   #3531
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Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87 View Post
I agree that an lt5 zl1 would obviously gain weight and price, but it would still be cheaper to actually get a hold of than equivalently optioned/packaged gt500s even if both models of zl1 went up by 10k. My guess would be a defined lt5 if it happened at all.

Gaining 100 pounds similar to the zr1 wouldn't be unrealistic, also trim for trim the zr1 didn't quite gain 100 pounds, but it could possibly be slightly less as the zr1 had a lot of cooling over the z06 that needed to be added, where as the zl1s already had the appropriate cooling, though the zr1 also had some carbon fiber bits to make up for some of the gained weight so that might be a moot point.

Still a 3900lbs zl1 1le and 4000lbs zl1 isn't 4200 pounds bad. I think an lt5 zl1 would clean sweep a gt500 on a track but would still lose in a straight line due to all the torque management and protections a stock zl1 has that limit it's ability.
I doubt there would be any weight gain at all. It isn't like going from NA to a blower. It would simply be going from one blower to another one. Any weight gain would be minimal. Maybe a few extra pounds for bigger brakes to increase the stopping power to a level more appropriate for an extra 100 HP. And maybe a few extra pounds for extra cooing. But nothing significant. And I'm sure GM would find a way to distribute that weight thru the car so it wouldn't be front heavy like the GT500.

I don't think the ZL1 needs the LT5 specifically. But a cheap version of it would be nice. Like a LT4.5, lol!! The ZL1 does not need 750 HP if you ask me. With it's balance and looking at how well it was developed and made I'm willing to bet that it would beat the competition at everything if it had 700-725 HP. And considering that the Camaro community constantly walks around talking about how the ZL1 (as amazing as it is) isn't worth MSRP, I doubt they would make enough money to justify building it. Here we have the best performing car for the money on the planet and outside of GM you'd have to spend over $90K just to beat the car yet all I hear is people saying "oh I can get a brand new fully optioned ZLE for $60K OTD". So I say leave the car alone. I'd hate to see GM put time and effort into building an even better ZL1 and then these goons not wanna spend money on it and end up putting the Camaro in a bad financial spot.
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Old Yesterday, 08:24 PM   #3532
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
And that ZLE is going to get embarrased on the street and strip, you know where people actually drive their cars. If your going to compare a ZL1 to a GT500 base, the ZL1 is a much better comparison, it actually wont throw your back out and rattle your dental fillings loose on the street, and it's faster.
I wasn’t talking about comfort fanboy, I was talking about how the base gt500 is more money then the top of the line zl1. Nobody, and I mean nobody is saying or has said the zl1 would beat the gt500 in a drag, so why do you keep bringing it up?
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Old Today, 07:27 AM   #3533
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Originally Posted by 13vertss View Post
I wasn’t talking about comfort fanboy, I was talking about how the base gt500 is more money then the top of the line zl1. Nobody, and I mean nobody is saying or has said the zl1 would beat the gt500 in a drag, so why do you keep bringing it up?
Nobody cares or wants the ZLE, Dealers have to heavily discount the low MSRP to move the car off of the lots, because the ZLE isn't a street friendly car, it checked review boxes and that is all.

The ZL1 A10 is the star of the lineup, it offers it's owners fantastic all around performance, street, strip, and track without abusing the driver all with an even lower price than the ZLE, this is the car to compare to the Base 500.
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Old Today, 07:50 AM   #3534
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
I thought I had that in there lol. But yes also why its so heavy.




Well I think the main difference is when Porsche dropped the manual and then added it back in the car had previously had one. Making it easy to go back and add it. The C8 was designed with never having a manual in mind, and is still also a Chevy and needs to be affordable. It also seems like when Porsche did it, they did it purely for a performance standpoint, while it seems GM is doing it from a business standpoint. If you take Tadge and other corvette engineers for their word they said it simply wasn't economically feasible to find someone to design the transmission for 2,000 cars per year based on how fast the M7 take rate plummeted in the C7. The only way I could see them going back and offering it, would be to charge quite the hefty price for it, a la the painted stripes on the GT500. Basically a we really don't want to do it but if you got the $ we will.



That's pretty much exactly what Tadge said. It wasn't worth the money to develop it for such a low take rate



I think an LT5 Camaro would dominate anything and everything.
The problem is Tadge lied about the Manual C7 take rate. He claimed 15% and dropping. That is completely false. Lowest manual take rate of all C7 production years was 22%. That's a hell of a lot more cars than 2000/year.

ZR1 manual take rate was also 30% - so it seems that the higher HP models had more manual buyers...something to keep in mind.

What I see from "millennial" auto enthusiasts is the opposite of the "manual is dying" trend...they are driving BRZs, STIs, EVOs, Focus RS or STs, etc...and you guessed it, all with manuals.

Agreed on LT5 Camaro dominance...and I can't see GM sitting for another 3 straight years on 6th gen production without any significant changes or upgraded power - still hoping!
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Old Today, 08:04 AM   #3535
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
And that ZLE is going to get embarrased on the street and strip, you know where people actually drive their cars. If your going to compare a ZL1 to a GT500 base, the ZL1 is a much better comparison, it actually wont throw your back out and rattle your dental fillings loose on the street, and it's faster.
Since when is the zl1 faster than the zle? Last I checked manual zl1s were slower than the original manual zl1 1le's. I don't know if there is data out there to support that the a10 zl1 is faster than the a10 zle besides having extra drag from aero at high speeds but it's also slightly lighter with wider stickier tires.

Also anyone who complains about the zle ride harshness is an old puss and probably shouldn't have a low slung hard to get into sports car to begin with.

The zl1s and zl1 1le's will get beaten on the street by the gt500 and probably embarrassed at the strip... but at least it won't get gt350 embarrassed getting beaten by lower trim, lower power, and cheaper cars. Sure it'll lose to a more expensive, more powerful, newer car like it should. However it will be gt350 embarrassing if that weaker, older, cheaper car beats the gt500 at the track, you know the place where overall performance is actually tested.
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Old Today, 08:10 AM   #3536
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I doubt there would be any weight gain at all. It isn't like going from NA to a blower. It would simply be going from one blower to another one. Any weight gain would be minimal. Maybe a few extra pounds for bigger brakes to increase the stopping power to a level more appropriate for an extra 100 HP. And maybe a few extra pounds for extra cooing. But nothing significant. And I'm sure GM would find a way to distribute that weight thru the car so it wouldn't be front heavy like the GT500.

I don't think the ZL1 needs the LT5 specifically. But a cheap version of it would be nice. Like a LT4.5, lol!! The ZL1 does not need 750 HP if you ask me. With it's balance and looking at how well it was developed and made I'm willing to bet that it would beat the competition at everything if it had 700-725 HP. And considering that the Camaro community constantly walks around talking about how the ZL1 (as amazing as it is) isn't worth MSRP, I doubt they would make enough money to justify building it. Here we have the best performing car for the money on the planet and outside of GM you'd have to spend over $90K just to beat the car yet all I hear is people saying "oh I can get a brand new fully optioned ZLE for $60K OTD". So I say leave the car alone. I'd hate to see GM put time and effort into building an even better ZL1 and then these goons not wanna spend money on it and end up putting the Camaro in a bad financial spot.
It will gain some weight, wont necessarily be 100 pounds, being that the zr1 didn't gain 100 pounds as incorrectly stated before. The bigger supercharger will weigh more, and any possible cooling upgrades that may or may not be needed. A 40 to 60 pound increase isn't unrealistic, but I also don't think it'll be a big deal at all. The car would remain pretty close to the same weight.
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Old Today, 08:56 AM   #3537
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Nobody cares or wants the ZLE, Dealers have to heavily discount the low MSRP to move the car off of the lots, because the ZLE isn't a street friendly car, it checked review boxes and that is all.

The ZL1 A10 is the star of the lineup, it offers it's owners fantastic all around performance, street, strip, and track without abusing the driver all with an even lower price than the ZLE, this is the car to compare to the Base 500.
I really don't know why you come on here. All you ever do is bash the Camaro. You never seem to add any value anymore, just pop in to spread some negative hate every day or so then disappear. If only there were a word for that......
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Old Today, 09:04 AM   #3538
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Originally Posted by ST1LE View Post
I really don't know why you come on here. All you ever do is bash the Camaro. You never seem to add any value anymore, just pop in to spread some negative hate every day or so then disappear. If only there were a word for that......

Plus his argument is completely invalid, I've seen 10x as many ZLEs at track days than GT350s & GT350Rs and guess which one has been out twice as long?!?!


Sure some dealers are marking down the ZLEs but how is that a bad thing? Because Chevy dealers aren't all greedy shit heads like Ford dealers putting $50k mark ups on 350Rs/Raptors/GT500s?!?! Seems like a plus to me.
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Old Today, 09:05 AM   #3539
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Originally Posted by ST1LE View Post
I really don't know why you come on here. All you ever do is bash the Camaro. You never seem to add any value anymore, just pop in to spread some negative hate every day or so then disappear. If only there were a word for that......
Yes my following statement from above was very hateful.

"The ZL1 A10 is the star of the lineup, it offers it's owners fantastic all around performance, street, strip, and track without abusing the driver all with an even lower price than the ZLE, this is the car to compare to the Base 500."
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Old Today, 09:21 AM   #3540
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Nobody cares or wants the ZLE, Dealers have to heavily discount the low MSRP to move the car off of the lots, because the ZLE isn't a street friendly car, it checked review boxes and that is all.

The ZL1 A10 is the star of the lineup, it offers it's owners fantastic all around performance, street, strip, and track without abusing the driver all with an even lower price than the ZLE, this is the car to compare to the Base 500.
"Embarrassed" to me is paying ADM on top of 75k for a MUSTANG.
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