[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by willzilla

Hit anything hard enough at the wheel and your will most likely damage the suspension components.. aftermarket or OEM. The BMR pieces feel super stout and shouldn't deflect or bend under any normal or high performance application. The OEM stuff can be twisted and bent by hand. Now.. with stiffening up a bunch of components, well, the new weak link will present itself eventually I'm sure, lol.

I really only planned to do the cradle lockout which is the most important but then I was like... Well, I'll be in the general vicinity so I may as well do this part... And well if I do that one I might as well get this one... And then it kind of spirals out of control, lol.. not to mention I had a coupon code and wanted to stretch it's usefulness out as much as I could!

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

The bending of the BMR control arms on the Hellcat is not related to hitting anything, its from hard launches at the drag strip. Like I said the BMR pieces look twice as strong as the stock steel pieces but I've never seen anyone bend a stock piece. When folks in the Hellcst community want to add aftermarket adjustable control arms, they buy AAD pieces. My point is, looks can be deceiving and the stock pieces are much stronger than you can ever imagine. They only real upgrade you're getting is the bushings.

[willzilla]

Seems a ton of ppl use the BMR stuff for many years with mostly positive results... I did find the tubbed 1100+ whp hellcat with the bent adjustable trailing arms forum thread, though. Dude also snapped multiple DSS drive shafts, lol. It looks like BMR quickly rectified the issue for the 800+ whp cars with a thicker design.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by willzilla

Seems a ton of ppl use the BMR stuff for many years with mostly positive results... I did find the tubbed 1100+ whp hellcat with the bent adjustable trailing arms forum thread, though. Dude also snapped multiple DSS drive shafts, lol. It looks like BMR quickly rectified the issue for the 800+ whp cars with a thicker design.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

It was more than one person that bent them, and yes BMR claims they made them stronger after it happened. You're still missing the point that the original design looked twice as strong as the stock pieces but they weren't. Looks can be deceiving. The stock pieces are much stronger than you think.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

It was more than one person that bent them, and yes BMR claims they made them stronger after it happened. You're still missing the point that the original design looked twice as strong as the stock pieces but they weren't. Looks can be deceiving. The stock pieces are much stronger than you think.

The stock pieces aren’t strong, they’re just designed to flex significantly more so that they don’t break. Engineering for a completely different purpose. OEM needs cheap and compliant with smooth ride. Us crazies don’t need any of that. The twisty OEM stuff is fine for daily driver stuff and stock power levels but any car with big power definitely sees a massive improvement in stability, launch, and recovery with the BMR pieces. Really not even close. And it’s been that way over multiple generations of cars based on my own near 3 decades of hot rodding IMO. I remember my ‘97 WS6 Ram Air Formula with a 383 & nitrous getting the BMR treatment back in the late 90’s and remember being amazed at the improvement. Not to say that BMR can never mess up as evidenced by your Hellcat story, but their stuff has consistently performed at a high level overall. Just my 2 cents of course.

[Smokin19]

I think it's the soft rubber bushings that are the main problem with stock components. This allows to much flex under load. This is why the the BMR lockout kit is going on mine.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

I think it's the soft rubber bushings that are the main problem with stock components. This allows to much flex under load. This is why the the BMR lockout kit is going on mine.

Did the lockout kit only and that was the ticket until I got near 700 WHP. Once I blew past that it was nowhere near enough to stop wheelhop or keep the car under control.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

The stock pieces aren’t strong, they’re just designed to flex significantly more so that they don’t break. Engineering for a completely different purpose. OEM needs cheap and compliant with smooth ride. Us crazies don’t need any of that. The twisty OEM stuff is fine for daily driver stuff and stock power levels but any car with big power definitely sees a massive improvement in stability, launch, and recovery with the BMR pieces. Really not even close. And it’s been that way over multiple generations of cars based on my own near 3 decades of hot rodding IMO. I remember my ‘97 WS6 Ram Air Formula with a 383 & nitrous getting the BMR treatment back in the late 90’s and remember being amazed at the improvement. Not to say that BMR can never mess up as evidenced by your Hellcat story, but their stuff has consistently performed at a high level overall. Just my 2 cents of course.

I respect your opinion Josh, if you say they're much stronger I'll trust what you say. My experience was based on the Hellcat platform and those stock pieces are VERY strong. They don't flex at all. I installed all BMR pieces on my Hellcat and I didn't notice any difference at all other than the occasional creaky heim joints on the adjustable control arms. It's just hard for me to imagine that these cars perform as well as they do on a road course with pieces that are that weak and flex. Like I said, high powered modified ZL1s that are drag racing, I understand there could be some flex there, but it's just hard for me to imagine that's the case road racing. Keep in mind, this is not a knock against BMR, I believe they do build quality products, but I just think cars like the Hellcat and ZL1 are really overbuilt from the factory because of their performance capabilities. Once you start modifying them though, the stock pieces are probably outside of their design. The poly or solid bushings seem to make much more of a difference than the actual pieces themselves.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Did the lockout kit only and that was the ticket until I got near 700 WHP. Once I blew past that it was nowhere near enough to stop wheelhop or keep the car under control.

Are the SS and ZL1 suspension pieces exactly the same?

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

I respect your opinion Josh, if you say they're much stronger I'll trust what you say. My experience was based on the Hellcat platform and those stock pieces are VERY strong. They don't flex at all. I installed all BMR pieces on my Hellcat and I didn't notice any difference at all other than the occasional creaky heim joints on the adjustable control arms. It's just hard for me to imagine that these cars perform as well as they do on a road course with pieces that are that weak and flex. Like I said, high powered modified ZL1s that are drag racing, I understand there could be some flex there, but it's just hard for me to imagine that's the case road racing. Keep in mind, this is not a knock against BMR, I believe they do build quality products, but I just think cars like the Hellcat and ZL1 are really overbuilt from the factory because of their performance capabilities. Once you start modifying them though, the stock pieces are probably outside of their design. The poly or solid bushings seem to make much more of a difference than the actual pieces themselves.

No worries my friend, I respect your thoughts as well. You could very well be right on road racing. I think it’s the whole stock vs modded debate…once you start dialing up the power you’re pushing everything outside the original design envelope as you alluded to.

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Are the SS and ZL1 suspension pieces exactly the same?

I believe the main suspension pieces are the same. Wish GM would have come out with the Z28 for the Gen6, would have been interesting to see if GM was still cool with the suspension pieces at higher G cornering forces. I’m sure the bushings are a huge part of it as well too, no doubt.

[arpad_m]

Looks can be deceiving. I think these components are designed to be lightweight and only withstand specific force vectors that occur during their real world use. They may look weak (see random example below) or flex/twist when vastly different vectors are applied, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't function well.

The point about going outside the design envelope clearly applies, though, there is probably little overhead left for us to "play with", so it's entirely plausible that those forces ignored or minimized during design grow high enough to distort components as extra power or extra traction is added. We are pretty lucky that the LT1/LT4 is beefy enough to allow such a massive amount of extra power, I don't think this applies to everything on the Camaro.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

No worries my friend, I respect your thoughts as well. You could very well be right on road racing. I think it’s the whole stock vs modded debate…once you start dialing up the power you’re pushing everything outside the original design envelope as you alluded to.



I believe the main suspension pieces are the same. Wish GM would have come out with the Z28 for the Gen6, would have been interesting to see if GM was still cool with the suspension pieces at higher G cornering forces. I’m sure the bushings are a huge part of it as well too, no doubt.

Bushings definitely change the feel of a car, generally, the stiffer they are the more NVH you pick up, and while I won't disagree that a really well-trained driver could notice a difference with aftermarket pieces with stiffer bushings, I think a lot of average Joe's wouldn't gain any appreciable time on a road course because something like that is trying to extract that last 1-2% of performance. When a car is highly modified though, all bets are off because the stock pieces weren't designed for the extra force placed on them, but that's typically going to be drag racing applications since you don't see too many 1000hp ZL1s on a road course. For that matter, there's only a VERY few hyper cars over 800hp that are built for road course racing. Your Koenigsegg's and Bugatti's are nothing more than hyper muscle cars, built for top speed and acceleration with little regard to handling.

[pauly1119]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

I think it's the soft rubber bushings that are the main problem with stock components. This allows to much flex under load. This is why the the BMR lockout kit is going on mine.

I’m also experiencing the problem and have a ZLE, maybe I’m getting too much flex in the pop metal parts? I’m stock except for PS4S tires but don’t remember it being a issue in the past. I did play with the traction settings the other day and did see an improvement. I’m scheduling a rear alignment next week. I’m waiting for a certain mechanic to come back from vacation first.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by pauly1119

I’m also experiencing the problem and have a ZLE, maybe I’m getting too much flex in the pop metal parts? I’m stock except for PS4S tires but don’t remember it being a issue in the past. I did play with the traction settings the other day and did see an improvement. I’m scheduling a rear alignment next week. I’m waiting for a certain mechanic to come back from vacation first.

On the street, drag strip, road course?

[pauly1119]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

On the street, drag strip, road course?

On the street, I have a nice loop mapped out I enjoy running weekly so it’s a road I’m very familiar with. Started feeling the back sway back and forth the last few months. Usually going from 3th to 4th hitting some good speeds for a short burst.
I did play with the traction settings the other day but it’s a pretty big loop. I’ll try again Monday. I do think it improved it.