[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by jamala00

We went to an open house Sun. 3 bed 2 bath ranch... A few months ago this open house would have been wall to wall people with offfers $30k + over asking. Sunday's open house we went to... It was us and one other couple. That's all that showed up. Your right, it ain't just the car market that came to a crawl.

Housing prices will start falling pretty fast soon. A $300k 30 year mortgage a year ago was around $1,300 per month. That same mortgage today is around $2000 per month, plus all inflated costs of property insurance, etc. Home are starting to sit longer.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by TP2SS

As another poster mentioned, Carvana in MI is barred from doing business too. Even after the State shut them down, they ignored the order and did business for a few more days.

Crazy story: buddy of mine looking for a used CT6, 2016-2019 range. He's wants the cashmere interior which is rare and only came on the platinum edition apparently. He's called and looked at cars everywhere east of the Mississippi, some priced thousands over KBB, and none of the dealers will budge. Some have been listed for MONTHS, and some have had their prices actually be raised since he first bookmarked/called the dealers on them. And most have finally sold in the past month or two (although he doesn't know the actual sales price). He had at least two dealers say they were just going to wholesale the car at auction, but they wouldn't take his offers (probably more than they'd get at auction...idiots!).
.

When the cars sit, the dealers have been losing money paying interest on them each month. So to make up for it they raise the prices even though they weren’t selling at their lower but still inflated price. And you’re right, your friends offer was probably more than they got at auction not to mention the auction fee’s they also had to pay.

[TP2SS]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

When the cars sit, the dealers have been losing money paying interest on them each month. So to make up for it they raise the prices even though they weren’t selling at their lower but still inflated price. And you’re right, your friends offer was probably more than they got at auction not to mention the auction fee’s they also had to pay.

Yep. And he's a cash buyer too. They wouldn't have to do much paperwork either as they were all out-of-state, so a bill of sale would do it since he would be registering/titling/paying sales tax in his home state of IL. That's the other thing I forget to mention too, many of these dealers he's called tell him there's another $1000+ in "doc fees", and they won't budge on those either. IIRC, one dealer was like $1800 doc fee! Some of the cars were close to book (but still over) and the hidden doc fee made the car overpriced.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by jamala00

We went to an open house Sun. 3 bed 2 bath ranch... A few months ago this open house would have been wall to wall people with offfers $30k + over asking. Sunday's open house we went to... It was us and one other couple. That's all that showed up. Your right, it ain't just the car market that came to a crawl.

I went to an open house a couple weeks back. They are still trying to play tricks. Selling a 3 bedroom house at best as a 5 bedroom house just so they can ask more.

Surprised they found someone bite because I saw the listing drop off.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Nobody really wants to reduce demand but the only tool the Fed has to slow inflation is by raising interest rates. The root of the problem is that government printed way too much money during the pandemic. Add in supply chain issues and the fact no one seems to want to work anymore and here we are.

I am still struggling with the fact that a dozen eggs cost me like $7 the other day.

Fair points but how does people buying cars and homes at high values contribute to inflation?

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Fair points but how does people buying cars and homes at high values contribute to inflation?

It keeps prices high. Dealers charge over MSRP and vehicle MSRP from the manufacturers keeps rising if people keep paying it. If people stop paying over sticker then the inventory sits and prices naturally come down. Basic supply and demand. The Fed is helping this process by reducing demand for expensive items that typically require loans, cars, homes, etc. by raising interest rates.

The used car market prices are starting to drop pretty heavily right now as inventory is sitting longer and vehicle repossessions are on the rise. Now, dealers are sitting with inventory that they probably have overpaid for. Furthermore, dealers are now concerned about used car prices dropping further so they are not offering the same kind of money for trade-ins to protect themselves from losses. Factor in an even higher interest rate on a used vehicles and something has to give, which is demand lowers and prices drop.

This was bound to happen, just a matter of time. If the supply levels improve at the same time demand is lowered we will eventually be back to buying new cars at 5, 10, 15% off.

[sblavesc]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

It keeps prices high. Dealers charge over MSRP and vehicle MSRP from the manufacturers keeps rising if people keep paying it. If people stop paying over sticker then the inventory sits and prices naturally come down. Basic supply and demand. The Fed is helping this process by reducing demand for expensive items that typically require loans, cars, homes, etc. by raising interest rates.

The used car market prices are starting to drop pretty heavily right now as inventory is sitting longer and vehicle repossessions are on the rise. Now, dealers are sitting with inventory that they probably have overpaid for. Furthermore, dealers are now concerned about used car prices dropping further so they are not offering the same kind of money for trade-ins to protect themselves from losses. Factor in an even higher interest rate on a used vehicles and something has to give, which is demand lowers and prices drop.

This was bound to happen, just a matter of time. If the supply levels improve at the same time demand is lowered we will eventually be back to buying new cars at 5, 10, 15% off.

I honestly don't think we will ever get back to 10-15% off MSRP, especially with ordering being the new model. Currently some manufactures are raising the prices of their 23 and 24 models due to their supply costs. I know Toyota announced just recently price increase coming to their models.

[sblavesc]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Fair points but how does people buying cars and homes at high values contribute to inflation?

It does not, the problem still is lack of supply, manufacturing, and labor cost on all fronts driving inflation....For instance ( this is just cars)
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...reases-coming/

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by sblavesc

It does not, the problem still is lack of supply, manufacturing, and labor cost on all fronts driving inflation....For instance ( this is just cars)
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...reases-coming/

I do believe that new cars will still be being sold for msrp +- 5%. While new car supply is getting better, it’s still not going to be better until probably at least the middle of 2024. I’ll admit I was wrong about this. I thought late 2023 but it doesn’t look like that will be the case. That being said used car values and prices have DEFINITELY taken a hit and will continue to drop. New cars are on lots but still not to the prepandemic levels. I’m hoping they will go back to the prepandemic levels by late 2024 but not sure yet.

[sblavesc]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I do believe that new cars will still be being sold for msrp +- 5%. While new car supply is getting better, it’s still not going to be better until probably at least the middle of 2024. I’ll admit I was wrong about this. I thought late 2023 but it doesn’t look like that will be the case. That being said used car values and prices have DEFINITELY taken a hit and will continue to drop. New cars are on lots but still not to the prepandemic levels. I’m hoping they will go back to the prepandemic levels by late 2024 but not sure yet.

True, most used cars will continue drop in price, likely not to the norm like they should. There will still be those used vehicles that still retain a high used price or even more than new. Examples are high demand vehicles, limited edition trims, or I noticed Hybrids especially Toyota are retaining high used prices still.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by sblavesc

True, most used cars will continue drop in price, likely not to the norm like they should. There will still be those used vehicles that still retain a high used price or even more than new. Examples are high demand vehicles, limited edition trims, or I noticed Hybrids especially Toyota are retaining high used prices still.

Agreed. Interesting note about Toyotas. I noticed earlier in the year that all Camaros below zl1’s had begun to drop but zl1’s weren’t. Zl1’s have FINALLY come down a bit but not by the same percentage as non zl1’s. I’ve also been tracking c6/7 z06s and they have barely moved. Hoping the specialty cars drop too because In a year and a half I will be in the market for either a Zl1 or c6 z06.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by sblavesc

I honestly don't think we will ever get back to 10-15% off MSRP, especially with ordering being the new model. Currently some manufactures are raising the prices of their 23 and 24 models due to their supply costs. I know Toyota announced just recently price increase coming to their models.

Not yet. Eventually when supply improves but I wonder if manufacturers will ever flood the market anymore. We may see more move to the build to order type of system that Tesla uses.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Agreed. Interesting note about Toyotas. I noticed earlier in the year that all Camaros below zl1’s had begun to drop but zl1’s weren’t. Zl1’s have FINALLY come down a bit but not by the same percentage as non zl1’s. I’ve also been tracking c6/7 z06s and they have barely moved. Hoping the specialty cars drop too because In a year and a half I will be in the market for either a Zl1 or c6 z06.

ZL1s will remain pretty strong since they already represent a great value for the performance you get and their days are numbered. 650hp/650tq in the alpha chassis is fantastic, just hard to enjoy on public roads, which is why I sold mine.

I sold my ZL1 3 months ago. 2021, paid MSRP - $500, $67,295 and traded it for $64,000 with 3,300 miles for a Cadillac CT4V-Blackwing at MSRP.

[jamala00]

Just read a report that Carvana's stock could fall to $1.00... Ouch.. Vroom has lost over 50% of it's value as well. If you wanted to sell or trade your car I sure hope you did it a while back because you are not going to get $hit for it now.