[Choda]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

That's a great video.. 93 on that level of power holly smokes. That could be old school like 8:1 compression and big ass or 2 big ass turbos to get over the octane hurdle. As far as pressure e85 would require 30% more been nice to see that part.

pretty sure they made 1100 something more recently on straight 93. So I'm still saying this kit is well built and proven to be successful. Nice job katech

[F419sr1]

https://www.facebook.com/jannettyrac...2748609410212/

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

That's not how it works. They flow +30% more then a LT4 injector at 2800psi. You won't get that flow if your fuel supply to the injectors isn't up to par and the pressure drops low enough where the injectors open up past the point of safe injection(6.4ms). Normally the last thing that needs changed on a LT4 system is the injector. Low side usually goes first, then high side, then injectors.

Low side solution(s)- JMS booster, Aux fuel pump, For innovations intank pump.

High side- Cam with bigger lobe, LPE DI pump with matching cam, or Katech belt driven DI pump.

All in one solution...Weapon X SPI port injection with low side pump.


It all comes down to power goals. I seen a ZL1 make close to 800whp on E85 with FIC +30, Cam wit 32% lobe, LPE DI pump, and aux low side. Meth and pump gas would get by with less fuel mods. Meth and Race fuel could make those numbers on the stock LT4 fuel system. So a lot of it has to do with the type of fuel you plan on running as well.

I was able to hit 800whp but ran out of injector. I think that I could simply add these injectors and run 800whp on pump e85 (which is really about e70 where I live).

I am running a voltage booster with the full LT4 fuel system. No aux system and no alky injection. To go over 800 I would have to add alky or race fuel to lower the injector requirements. The other option was to add something like the 30%+ injectors...not sure what limit I would hit next.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

I was able to hit 800whp but ran out of injector. I think that I could simply add these injectors and run 800whp on pump e85 (which is really about e70 where I live).

I am running a voltage booster with the full LT4 fuel system. No aux system and no alky injection. To go over 800 I would have to add alky or race fuel to lower the injector requirements. The other option was to add something like the 30%+ injectors...not sure what limit I would hit next.

You were out of fuel tho, so hitting 800whp and being able to make it safely is 2 very different things. The setup I mentioned still had room left and could be daily driven that way. You will likely need +30 injectors and a LPE DI pump to go past 800 on E85 without Alky or mixing the E down.

[BlueinTN]

Originally Posted by Katech_Zach

I will try to answer all of these in one shot:

-The XDI pump is a secondary high pressure fuel pump with a maximum fuel pressure output of 250bar / 3600psi. This is dependent on how fast you spin this pump.

-The amount of fuel that is able to go through the high-pressure side of the vehicles fuel system (both the OEM and XDI pump) is the amount of fuel that the low side pump is able to provide. Whether it is port injection, direct injection, or a combination of both, you will need a specific amount of fuel flow coming from the fuel tank to adequately provide any sort of fueling to the engine.

-On an engine dyno (not a car as you requested), we made 1486hp with only direct injection on race gas and 1308hp on e85. This would be near 1300whp and 1150whp respectively through a manual transmission in a vehicle. This engine was running the Hellion Twin Turbo kit for a Gen 6 Camaro on a stock LT5 camshaft, the precision 6266 turbos were to small to be pushed further. This is a great example of the DI system being able to keep up when the low pressure fuel system supplying the dyno was up to par.

-The smaller DSX pump is a great addition for certain power goals, otherwise you will have to go to a larger auxiliary pump or a larger in-tank solution. This is dependent on the horsepower you are trying to make obviously. I can help determine if that pump is adequate for a specific application if I knew what that application was.

You may want to take time and explain the relationship between fuel flow and pressure. People get confused with pressure and volume all the time.

[Uwe@XDI]

Originally Posted by Choda

I did some digging. The CSP zl1 for the guitar guy made over 1k on straight 93 w the Katech system a while ago. There’s the proof. This system is the real deal for guys looking to make 1k+ and staying di.

https://youtu.be/5gm8RufkQN0

Here is another video with that Kit on a C7, that runs 8.79sec at >160mph. This was with a bit of port injection at >6000rpm.

[Uwe@XDI]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

2 things need to happen when showing us this great product, "Katech" I for one had no problem investing in it but was turned off from unanswered questions and proof from Jason!

On paper and theory it looks great but talking to Jason I haven't seen nor has he showed me a car over 1000 rwhp or even close to that on all DI and E85. I did see one with this setup and Port injection making a little over a 1000 hp and it was said that the port injection only contributed to 100 hp of that number.

#1. I never could get an accurate answer from Katech or Mr. Uwe that something like a DSX pump would be enough to feed the DI belt driven pump. I found 1st hand its not enough to feed the Lingenfelter pump I was told by them I need 100 psi low side and 85 continuously under load something not told upfront. However its still out performs the oem LT4 stuff by a mile and is a good investment if you want to keep it simple.

2# Going by where my plus 30s were in terms of milliseconds for firing I can't see plus 45 even with 3000 psi steady never falling off being able to take you much past 1000. On race fuel it probably has no problem doing so but then again the oem fuel system will to.

If the setup is true we need to see an all DI car with plus 45s on e85 making 1000rwhp.

here is the video of the C7 that made 1067whp on Ignite E87 DI only with this kit and +45% injectors. With a bit of extra port injection it made 1235whp.
Video shows Dyno chart, the installation with an F1A-94 and screenshot of a datalog.
https://youtu.be/2qmxTdELKlQ

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by Uwe@XDI

here is the video of the C7 that made 1067whp on Ignite E87 DI only with this kit and +45% injectors. With a bit of extra port injection it made 1235whp.
Video shows Dyno chart, the installation with an F1A-94 and screenshot of a datalog.
https://youtu.be/2qmxTdELKlQ

And can we see the DI injectors Milliseconds

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

I was able to hit 800whp but ran out of injector. I think that I could simply add these injectors and run 800whp on pump e85 (which is really about e70 where I live).

Not necessarily. You need the right amount of fuel at the right pressure to get it to go through the injector during the time it's open. Pressure drop OR lack of fuel to squirt in and you can have freight train sized injectors installed. It will do you no good.

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

To go over 800 I would have to add alky or race fuel to lower the injector requirements. The other option was to add something like the 30%+ injectors...not sure what limit I would hit next.

Less E and more gas (high octane) will allow you to run a smaller fuel system with the same hp.

[Katech_Zach]

Originally Posted by BlueinTN

You may want to take time and explain the relationship between fuel flow and pressure. People get confused with pressure and volume all the time.

Looking at the whole system, our critical areas to look at are:
-Low Side Fuel Flow Rate
-Low Side Fuel Pressure at the High Side Inlet
-High Side Fuel Pressure at the Injector Inlet
-High Side Injector Fuel Flow Rate at the Outlet
-High Side Injector Fuel Injector Pressure at the Outlet

To start, you need a specific amount of fuel to support the intended power level targets. You can calculate this in multiple ways. Once you the amount of fuel you need (in flow), you need to make sure your low side fuel system can support that amount. This can be done with an aux pump system running in parallel with your factory pump, or a new drop in system like the fore unit.

Next, you need to verify that your high pressure pump is receiving the amount of fuel that the fuel pump is trying to supply. You also want to make sure that the high pressure pump is receiving that fuel at or above 60 psi fuel pressure. If all checks out on the low side, you can move onto the high side.

The factory high pressure pump's output can be changed with a larger fuel lobe. In addition to this pump, you can run the Katech XDI in parallel to gain additional output. These rates can be found here:



On the left, you have the % increase in fuel flow percentage, and at the base of each bar is the amount of max pressure that the pumps can support. Moving onto the injector, the important part about this is the higher operating rail pressure and the size of the injector. If the injector is too small or there is too little rail pressure, you will have to keep the injector open much longer in order to provide the amount of fuel required by the engine.

At higher RPM, the window that is available to inject fuel into the combustion chamber is much smaller than the lower RPM window. Therefor, you need to make sure that the injector can flow the amount of fuel needed in the amount of time that is available for fuel injection. This is where the higher operating rail pressure and the larger XDI injectors come into play, you will be able to flow the large amounts of fuel into the combustion chamber in the short time windows that are available for injection.

The fuel system is one large system that needs to work together in order to achieve the desired amounts of power. All areas need to be addressed in order to support high horsepower applications.

To answer your questions about fuel flow and pressure:

Fuel flow is simply the amount of fuel (volumetric flow rate or fuel flow rate) that can be delivered through the fuel system. A pump may be capable of x amount of lph but the feed lines may be a restriction, so volumetric flow rate would be more accurately measured at the end of the feed line going into the high pressure pump. You can have x-lph flowing out of a 2" tube with near no pressure, or you can have x-lph flowing out of a .25" tube with a ton of pressure.

Pressure is the is the amount of force per cross sectional area (pound per square inch, newtons per square meter etc) that is measured at a given point in the fuel system. As the length of fuel line increases, the pressure and fuel flow decreases.

Both fuel flow drop and pressure drop can be calculated, an example of this can be shown below:

[BlueinTN]

Thank you!


I was also wondering when fuel lines need to be upgraded especially when using E85.



What I was getting at, and be a nice guy was, people think that," if I'm running 60 psi ill just make the pump run 100psi and all will be good in the world." and you have lost volume,sometime a lot.


Thank you again for taking the time to post all that.

[Katech_Zach]

Originally Posted by BlueinTN

Thank you!


I was also wondering when fuel lines need to be upgraded especially when using E85.



What I was getting at, and be a nice guy was, people think that," if I'm running 60 psi ill just make the pump run 100psi and all will be good in the world." and you have lost volume,sometime a lot.


Thank you again for taking the time to post all that.

While you can do this (run a pump harder to provide the same flow/pressure as a smaller pump with a larger line), it is not ideal to do longevity concerns. If an aux pump + OEM fuel pump is not adequately supplying enough fuel for your horsepower goals, I believe that is the time to upgrade the lines while you are upgrading the in-tank unit.