[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by LiqTenExp

I wouldn't run a non ethanol/methanol car much above 22° based on how my car has responded over the past 4 years, that is about where I topped out before methanol on 93 octane.

22 degrees Based on how your car responded as in?


NVM, i see now.. You topped out at 22 degrees on 93 before you added meth, correct?

[LiqTenExp]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

22 degrees Based on how your car responded as in?

Looking at gains/shape of HP curve and knock.

Yes on 93, that is where I stopped. Now with meth I can get to 26+ using the same knock sensor settings, 26 seemed like more than enough!

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

What? No. Every tune i've looked at with race fuel or high ethanol content their timing has been as high as 24-27.


19-20 Degrees is common on pump 93 for a 2650 and cam/heads, not for race fuels/meth or ethanol.

Doesn't matter you don't need that much timing.

I know of a well respected name in the 6th gen game that just made 1100whp with a D1x @ 198kpa. This is a Heads/Cam/Forged LT1 with LT4 fuel running meth and E47. Made this power on 22 degrees of timing.

ShizzySupra is making over 1k in his 2650 powered SS with LT5 internals and 22 degrees of timing.

Parish made close to 1k with his Turbo L83 swap on 17-18 degrees.


Just because it will take the timing doesn't mean that is where you should run it. If you understand the Virtual Torque tables and see how GM populated them, you find that theses engines were designed to make peak torque around 20-22 degrees. Going 25+ degrees is diminished returns.

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Doesn't matter you don't need that much timing.

I know of a well respected name in the 6th gen game that just made 1100whp with a D1x @ 198kpa. This is a Heads/Cam/Forged LT1 with LT4 fuel running meth and E47. Made this power on 22 degrees of timing.

ShizzySupra is making over 1k in his 2650 powered SS with LT5 internals and 22 degrees of timing.

Parish made close to 1k with his Turbo L83 swap on 17-18 degrees.


Just because it will take the timing doesn't mean that is where you should run it. If you understand the Virtual Torque tables and see how GM populated them, you find that theses engines were designed to make peak torque around 20-22 degrees. Going 25+ degrees is diminished returns.

We agree to disagree. But there’s 2 posts right above with people running 26 degrees and making more power which is what I see on many
Builds with ethanol/meth/race fuels.

I just don’t see how you can take 2 cars with exact same builds and fuel and have the one on 19 degrees making the same as the one with 24. I don’t see the magic they are doing to create more power.. unless of course your replacing added timing for boost.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

We agree to disagree. But there’s 2 posts right above with people running 26 degrees and making more power which is what I see on many
Builds with ethanol/meth/race fuels.

I just don’t see how you can take 2 cars with exact same builds and fuel and have the one on 19 degrees making the same as the one with 24. I don’t see the magic they are doing to create more power.. unless of course your replacing added timing for boost.

You are correct..I was thinking LT1's not LT4's with much lower compression. My mistake on that.

[LiqTenExp]

Note I actually asked for 2 more degrees and got closer to 4, got love all the sneaky advance parameters that add up!

[radz28]

There are, apparently, MANY sneaky parameters in HPTuners that we have yet to see. It sounds like you have a strong combination though.

[Sickspeedkuwait]

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/e50-run-...&zoom=342-1400

E53 mix + Methanol on about 14 pounds of boost

Flex fuel tune added around 3-4 degrees more

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by Sickspeedkuwait

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/e50-run-...&zoom=342-1400

E53 mix + Methanol on about 14 pounds of boost

Flex fuel tune added around 3-4 degrees more

Looks like your at 27 degrees up top, nice... And who said that was too much timing . lol

[Sickspeedkuwait]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

Looks like your at 27 degrees up top, nice... And who said that was too much timing . lol

I only saw 22-23 degrees before

Ethanol really woke her up!

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by Sickspeedkuwait

I only saw 22-23 degrees before

Ethanol really woke her up!

I just looked at it again... 180F Manifold air temps, holy moly. LOL.


Does Lava come out of your tailpipes?


However, its amazing that even though MAT temps are so high, this is where meth and ethanol really shines. On pump gas with those temps it would be pulling so much timing or knocking till engine explodes.


Only time ive seen temps like 170F, is if im sitting idle for 15 minutes on a day hotter then 90F. If im driving on a 90F day or bit hotter temps linger around 130F to 140F closer I get to 100F ambient.


A 55F day my MAT temps are about 90F


But hey.... At least its a dry heat there

[Sickspeedkuwait]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

I just looked at it again... 180F Manifold air temps, holy moly. LOL.


Does Lava come out of your tailpipes?


However, its amazing that even though MAT temps are so high, this is where meth and ethanol really shines. On pump gas with those temps it would be pulling so much timing or knocking till engine explodes.


Only time ive seen temps like 170F, is if im sitting idle for 15 minutes on a day hotter then 90F. If im driving on a 90F day or bit hotter temps linger around 130F to 140F closer I get to 100F ambient.


A 55F day my MAT temps are about 90F


But hey.... At least its a dry heat there

Yes, the ported 1.7 is a hair dryer Only 14 pounds of boost too!

I have a Kong/edelbrock 2650 on the way.. Hopefully it would bring temps down

On pump gas, with similar MAT's it was not bad

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/track-log-2?log=0&data=11

[LiqTenExp]

That is warm MAT at 180! Wonder what your IAT Advance parameter was.. it should have been pulling multiple degrees of timing at that temp.

I was in the 120-140 MAT during my runs. My MAT will usually drop 2-4 degees during a pull from my 50/50 meth system.

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by LiqTenExp

That is warm MAT at 180! Wonder what your IAT Advance parameter was.. it should have been pulling multiple degrees of timing at that temp.

I was in the 120-140 MAT during my runs. My MAT will usually drop 2-4 degees during a pull from my 50/50 meth system.

Sounds like your tuner left the IAT table somewhat stock. 130 is usually the temp area where it pulls on the stock table.

Since he’s running 55% E and meth it’s quite possible even at those high Temps it wasn’t knocking. I saw total knock retard on his log, but didn’t see any knock retard or cylinder retard on his log.

Who knows what his knock sensors are set to also.