[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Looks like Ford made some updates to the GT350 (Non R)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...little-tweaks/

Looks like the tweaked the MRC, new tires, and revised aero. I wonder if the reason for that is the PP2 got to close to the same performance.

I have said that Ford doesn't care if the pp2 was close to stepping on 350's toes, but that was also when I thought for sure that the 350 was going to stop at model year 18 as it was basically a full carry over from previous model year.

People are all about the "Shelby" name...that would be a disgrace if the GT, any GT, could outperform it stock for stock in any performance metric. I would like to see one of these testers that got low 12s out of the A10 GT run it against the GT350 to see how they stack up to each other. But at this point, if people who buy the Shelby can tell themselves that they're honestly ok with the GT being 20K cheaper and faster then that's all that matters. And I'm not being condescending. I just know that personally, if I was dropping that much coin on a car, I would not be cool with a cheaper lower model being faster. That's just me tho.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Looks like Ford made some updates to the GT350 (Non R)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...little-tweaks/

Looks like the tweaked the MRC, new tires, and revised aero. I wonder if the reason for that is the PP2 got to close to the same performance.

I have said that Ford doesn't care if the pp2 was close to stepping on 350's toes, but that was also when I thought for sure that the 350 was going to stop at model year 18 as it was basically a full carry over from previous model year.

I saw that. Makes it an attractive 2nd car for me. Of course, they'll hit the floors. ADM will make them a $70k car. smh. I was waiting on the Snake, but at $130k, they can shove that car up their asses. I'd rather buy a GTR and put $30k in it and wipe the floor. But anyhow, love the GT350. Will wait to see what prices are going to be. We have any ETA's on this refresh?

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by kidamer

had a few at our track on saturday , the stangs were all slightly faster then the camaros sadly. stangs were 12.5 ish camaros 12.7ish 3400 da

Well, they have had 4 yrs to make it .2 faster so. Give Ford props.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by ndnashlenz

Anyone else thinks the looks of the new mustang are growing on them? I know for me personally they have, compared to the looks of the new camaro.

The new GT350 looks sick and the Snake looks like an absolute monster. Love em. FINALLY!

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

People are all about the "Shelby" name...that would be a disgrace if the GT, any GT, could outperform it stock for stock in any performance metric. I would like to see one of these testers that got low 12s out of the A10 GT run it against the GT350 to see how they stack up to each other. But at this point, if people who buy the Shelby can tell themselves that they're honestly ok with the GT being 20K cheaper and faster then that's all that matters. And I'm not being condescending. I just know that personally, if I was dropping that much coin on a car, I would not be cool with a cheaper lower model being faster. That's just me tho.

Did you forget that the track focused N/A Z28, also wasn't great in the 1/4 mile, average times were 12:30s - 12:50s? It seems you need to bolt on a supercharger to one of these track stars to make them run well straight, even then you better have an automatic, which Ford will also do shortly. Also what does the manual 650-hp ZL1 run on average in the 1/4 high 11s-low 12s, (similar to the faster SS and GTs) the additional 130-hp and 220 lbs of torque over the GT350 is worth 3-4 tenths in the 1/4, impressive.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Did you forget that the track focused N/A Z28, also wasn't great in the 1/4 mile, average times were 12:30s - 12:50s? It seems you need to bolt on a supercharger to one of these track stars to make them run well straight, even then you better have an automatic, which Ford will also do shortly. Also what does the manual 650-hp ZL1 run on average in the 1/4 high 11s-low 12s, (similar to the faster SS and GTs) the additional 130-hp and 220 lbs of torque over the GT350 is worth 3-4 tenths in the 1/4, impressive.

I was never impressed with the 5th Gen Z28. But it did keep up with the 5th Gen ZL1 while beating the 5th Gen ZL1 around a track. And it wasn't until 2015 that Ford was able to beat it with the GT350 which was the final year of the 5th Gen anyway. So there's all that. And it ran 12.2, not 12.3-12.5. That is if my memory serves me correctly. And at the time they came out, what cars in it's price range was keeping up with it stock for stock? Again, I was never impressed with the Z28. And that was a few years ago so why you're bringing that up now when discussing cars for the 2018 and 2019 MY sounds a bit defensive to me.

The manual 6th Gen ZL1 is almost a half second faster than the GT350. That is with both cars being priced similarly. And it'll wipe out the GT 350 and GT350R around a track. And it isn't even in the same league or anywhere near the same league as the manual GT nor the A10 GT nor any SS of any configuration. Just like the A10 ZL1 is far out of the reach of the A10 GT. So again, I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. And even if you match the A10 GT against the M6 ZL1 I'd put my money on the ZL1. Plus remember, the 13-14 GT500 had a M6 trans and more HP than the LT4 powered ZL1 (663 to 650) and it too only ran a high 11. You can't call these cars out for being high 11 sec if they have a manual trans. We all know that time is due to the trans alone as a manual trans car is much harder to launch than an auto trans car. So let's not pretend it to be anything other than a trans thing.

So I'm not sure if you're trying to downplay the ZL1 but I think you know a lot better than you're acting right now. I said before I was trying to tone it down a bit and I'm gonna keep it to that. But we both know that any time associated with the M6 trans ZL1 is due only to the trans. Same as the GT350(R), Hellcat, 13-14 GT500, and any other car with a manual trans. I mean, if the GT350(R) got the A10 just like the GT, do you really think the GT would still be faster?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

I saw that. Makes it an attractive 2nd car for me. Of course, they'll hit the floors. ADM will make them a $70k car. smh. I was waiting on the Snake, but at $130k, they can shove that car up their asses. I'd rather buy a GTR and put $30k in it and wipe the floor. But anyhow, love the GT350. Will wait to see what prices are going to be. We have any ETA's on this refresh?

I saw a few SSS around the $100K price range. ADMs on a standard GT350 bringing it up to $70K would be a disaster. But I'm sure people will still buy them. I'm not sure why when there are a bunch of mega HP bruisers out there that cost the same or even less. I mean, the GT350 would need a serious bump in performance to make it worth $70K even if that is due to ADM. But again, I am sure they could leave it right where it is and people will pay that same $70K. It wouldn't surprise me at all. $70K is where the GT500 should be and it should be outperforming the GT350(R) everywhere to make it worthwhile if you ask me. But maybe I expect too much out of these cars. Looking at the competition tho, the ZL1, Z06, Hellcat, etc...anything Ford sells at $70K would have to keep up with those cars. I'm not into buying a name and throwing a "Shelby" badge on the car won't do it for me. But that's me...

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Well, they have had 4 yrs to make it .2 faster so. Give Ford props.

Yup! There is no excuse for NOT being faster at this point. Funny thing is that my friend test drove a GT and was raving about the A10 trans. I told him that now he knows what I've been raving about for the past year and a half, lol!! I think a lot of excitement surrounding these GTs are due to the fact that they're now caught up.

Originally Posted by kttxz06

The new GT350 looks sick and the Snake looks like an absolute monster. Love em. FINALLY!

I always thought the GT350 looked great. And even the GT. I just wish it had the performance to match it's looks...and to match the ZL1 along with a similar price with no markups. That might have almost swayed me towards one.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I was never impressed with the 5th Gen Z28. But it did keep up with the 5th Gen ZL1 while beating the 5th Gen ZL1 around a track. And it wasn't until 2015 that Ford was able to beat it with the GT350 which was the final year of the 5th Gen anyway. So there's all that. And it ran 12.2, not 12.3-12.5. That is if my memory serves me correctly. And at the time they came out, what cars in it's price range was keeping up with it stock for stock? Again, I was never impressed with the Z28. And that was a few years ago so why you're bringing that up now when discussing cars for the 2018 and 2019 MY sounds a bit defensive to me.

The manual 6th Gen ZL1 is almost a half second faster than the GT350. That is with both cars being priced similarly. And it'll wipe out the GT 350 and GT350R around a track. And it isn't even in the same league or anywhere near the same league as the manual GT nor the A10 GT nor any SS of any configuration. Just like the A10 ZL1 is far out of the reach of the A10 GT. So again, I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. And even if you match the A10 GT against the M6 ZL1 I'd put my money on the ZL1. Plus remember, the 13-14 GT500 had a M6 trans and more HP than the LT4 powered ZL1 (663 to 650) and it too only ran a high 11. You can't call these cars out for being high 11 sec if they have a manual trans. We all know that time is due to the trans alone as a manual trans car is much harder to launch than an auto trans car. So let's not pretend it to be anything other than a trans thing.

So I'm not sure if you're trying to downplay the ZL1 but I think you know a lot better than you're acting right now. I said before I was trying to tone it down a bit and I'm gonna keep it to that. But we both know that any time associated with the M6 trans ZL1 is due only to the trans. Same as the GT350(R), Hellcat, 13-14 GT500, and any other car with a manual trans. I mean, if the GT350(R) got the A10 just like the GT, do you really think the GT would still be faster?

The problem is you are trying to knock a NA car which has 120-less hp, and 220- less lbs of torque to its supercharged competitor as being considered slow. Soon there will be a supercharged version of this Ford and then we can measure apples to apples and see exactly how impressive the ZL1 is. But to compare it against a NA version with much less power is ridiculous. Also the prior GT500 was tested at 11:60s or faster than the manual ZL1.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

People are all about the "Shelby" name...that would be a disgrace if the GT, any GT, could outperform it stock for stock in any performance metric. I would like to see one of these testers that got low 12s out of the A10 GT run it against the GT350 to see how they stack up to each other. But at this point, if people who buy the Shelby can tell themselves that they're honestly ok with the GT being 20K cheaper and faster then that's all that matters. And I'm not being condescending. I just know that personally, if I was dropping that much coin on a car, I would not be cool with a cheaper lower model being faster. That's just me tho.

This is probably as close a comparison as you'll ever find, same day, same driver, same track. neither car is 100% stock , but I still think its a accurate test.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Plus remember, the 13-14 GT500 had a M6 trans and more HP than the LT4 powered ZL1 (663 to 650) and it too only ran a high 11. You can't call these cars out for being high 11 sec if they have a manual trans. We all know that time is due to the trans alone as a manual trans car is much harder to launch than an auto trans car. So let's not pretend it to be anything other than a trans thing.

IIRC both cars were mid 11's as tested by magazines. The A10 ZL1 may have gone 11.4 in one test the GT500 seemed to always go 11.6

I'd love to see a 2013 Gt500 with the A10 run.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The problem is you are trying to knock a NA car which has 120-less hp, and 220- less lbs of torque to its supercharged competitor as being considered slow. Soon there will be a supercharged version of this Ford and then we can measure apples to apples and see exactly how impressive the ZL1 is. But to compare it against a NA version with much less power is ridiculous. Also the prior GT500 was tested at 11:60s or faster than the manual ZL1.

It's the price range. Both cars cost around the same one of them has 130 more horsepower. The same argument was made when the z28 was a 75k car and the Shelby smoked it down the strip. Difference here being the ZL1 beats the Shelby on the strip and the track.

The REAL kick in the ass is the SS1LE which has 80 less horsepower than the Shelby is just as fast. I'm glad they are adding performance to the base 350 because I can't see paying 30k more for one than a 1LE.

The GT500 has to HAS TO beat the ZL1 at least at the strip. I'll be very disappointed if it doesn't.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It's the price range. Both cars cost around the same one of them has 130 more horsepower. The same argument was made when the z28 was a 75k car and the Shelby smoked it down the strip. Difference here being the ZL1 beats the Shelby on the strip and the track.

The REAL kick in the ass is the SS1LE which has 80 less horsepower than the Shelby is just as fast. I'm glad they are adding performance to the base 350 because I can't see paying 30k more for one than a 1LE.

The GT500 has to HAS TO beat the ZL1 at least at the strip. I'll be very disappointed if it doesn't.

I keep hearing this over and over again but as far as I know the two were never tested h2h same day, same driver. As conditions change dramatically from day to day this can't be claimed IMO.

The following article does a good job of actually comparing the Non R to the 1LE
https://www.torquenews.com/106/2017-...e-ss-tale-tape

[FastCarFanBoy]

the SS 1LE wont touch an R and will most likely not touch the non-R next year without an update.

the 1LE is however an amazing car and a steal at its price point.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I keep hearing this over and over again but as far as I know the two were never tested h2h same day, same driver. As conditions change dramatically from day to day this can't be claimed IMO.

The following article does a good job of actually comparing the Non R to the 1LE
https://www.torquenews.com/106/2017-...e-ss-tale-tape

Am i reading this right? They actually expect the 1LE to best the GT350, albeit by a tiny amount. Sad considering the price difference. And it's not like you're getting better quality with the GT350, only a name. Maybe they come with a spare engine.