[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The Mach E is outselling the Mustang.

And to be clear the Mustang is NOT selling well.

I’d bet Ford drops the ICE Mustang as soon as they feel confident the Mustang Mach E has market acceptance. The Mach E was baby step in that direction so they didn’t end up with another Probe type blowback

[Hops]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I’d bet Ford drops the ICE Mustang as soon as they feel confident the Mustang Mach E has market acceptance. The Mach E was baby step in that direction so they didn’t end up with another Probe type blowback

I thought the Mustang might be our last chance at an manual ICE coupe, since there's a supposed 7th generation... but you might be right, it's selling as well as the Mustang, i don't really see any bad reviews on it.
I have seen a few mach e's on the road, and let me say as one that draws on motorsports for an automotive aesthetic (wide tires, low to the ground... etc), i find the mach e utterly disgusting. If the mach e is the way we are heading.... i'm out, i will be looking seriously at a Factory Five, or SuperLite kit, and a Bolt for my daily.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Anyone curious enough should go the Buick China website. Yep, a minivan among a couple of sedans no longer sold in the US and at least one EV.

That right there says that mfrs are willing to develop niche products for an individual market. If the niche is projected to be big enough, I guess.


Norm

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Hops

I thought the Mustang might be our last chance at an manual ICE coupe, since there's a supposed 7th generation... but you might be right, it's selling as well as the Mustang, i don't really see any bad reviews on it.
I have seen a few mach e's on the road, and let me say as one that draws on motorsports for an automotive aesthetic (wide tires, low to the ground... etc), i find the mach e utterly disgusting. If the mach e is the way we are heading.... i'm out, i will be looking seriously at a Factory Five, or SuperLite kit, and a Bolt for my daily.

The S650 looks a hell of a lot like the current S550.

https://www.drivingline.com/articles...rd-mustang-gt/

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

Here's a video on youtube that shows an electric Gen7 Camaro testing at the Milford test track.

Judging by the tach and speedometer readings, it looks like there's some sort of gear shifting going on.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I’d bet Ford drops the ICE Mustang as soon as they feel confident the Mustang Mach E has market acceptance. The Mach E was baby step in that direction so they didn’t end up with another Probe type blowback

I see what you're saying, but the difference between a traditional ponycar buyer and today's SUV buyer is immense compared to the difference between a traditional ponycar buyer and a mid 1980s-design sporty compact coupe.


Norm

[FarmerFran]

Sales Numbers - Two-Door Muscle Cars - Q2 2021 - USA
MODEL Q2 21 / Q2 20 Q2 21 Q2 20 Q2 21 SHARE Q2 20 SHARE YTD 21 / YTD 20 YTD 21 YTD 20
DODGE CHALLENGER +52.35% 15,052 9,880 46% 31% +36.92% 30,148 22,018
FORD MUSTANG -6.62% 14,676 15,717 45% 49% -5.43% 31,950 33,786
CHEVROLET CAMARO -58.17% 2,792 6,675 9% 21% -28.71% 9,881 13,860
TOTAL +0.77% 32,520 32,272 +3.32% 71,979 69,664


The performance enabled the Mustang to enjoy a segment share of 45 percent, or 1 percent less than the Challenger’s 46 percent share. Meanwhile, the Camaro accounted for a mere 9 percent. Only the Dodge product saw an uptick in segment share, while the Mustang’s share slid four percentage points.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I see what you're saying, but the difference between a traditional ponycar buyer and today's SUV buyer is immense compared to the difference between a traditional ponycar buyer and a mid 1980s-design sporty compact coupe.


Norm

Ford intended to dump the rear drive, V8 layout and make the Mustang a "modern" front wheel driver.

Intense blowback caused them to reevaluate. They renamed the car Probe and did a low cost SN95 that was originally hidden from management.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/hagert...d-the-mustang/

So... I think that if Mustang is accepted as Mach E, Ford will lose interest in the ICE Mustang. They weren't brave enough to just do it ...like GM.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Sales Numbers - Two-Door Muscle Cars - Q2 2021 - USA
MODEL Q2 21 / Q2 20 Q2 21 Q2 20 Q2 21 SHARE Q2 20 SHARE YTD 21 / YTD 20 YTD 21 YTD 20
DODGE CHALLENGER +52.35% 15,052 9,880 46% 31% +36.92% 30,148 22,018
FORD MUSTANG -6.62% 14,676 15,717 45% 49% -5.43% 31,950 33,786
CHEVROLET CAMARO -58.17% 2,792 6,675 9% 21% -28.71% 9,881 13,860
TOTAL +0.77% 32,520 32,272 +3.32% 71,979 69,664


The performance enabled the Mustang to enjoy a segment share of 45 percent, or 1 percent less than the Challenger’s 46 percent share. Meanwhile, the Camaro accounted for a mere 9 percent. Only the Dodge product saw an uptick in segment share, while the Mustang’s share slid four percentage points.

This gives prospective. Dodge and Ford are enjoying increase market share in a shrinking market.

Chevy did worse than ignoring Camaro and letting it hang out there to wither. They gave us the 2019 facelift and got horrible press. Meanwhile, Dodge is burning tires on every other TV commercial and Ford did PP2, GT500 and Mach 1

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Mileage tax for electric cars

Here in IL they charge more for plate renewal on EVs. A normal car is $151, EV is $250 with rumors it might go to 500

Originally Posted by hotlap

I’d bet Ford drops the ICE Mustang as soon as they feel confident the Mustang Mach E has market acceptance. The Mach E was baby step in that direction so they didn’t end up with another Probe type blowback

Possibly but I think an ICE mustang will stick around for a bit. There is the S650 in development and Ford sure as hell looks like they are spinning Mustang and Bronco into sub brands. S650 might be the last ICE mustang, but I would also bet if/when Ford goes all EV on the Mustang they will retain a traditionally styled mustang coupe and convertible as well as the Mach-E and possibly a sedan.

Originally Posted by hotlap

This gives prospective. Dodge and Ford are enjoying increase market share in a shrinking market.

Chevy did worse than ignoring Camaro and letting it hang out there to wither. They gave us the 2019 facelift and got horrible press. Meanwhile, Dodge is burning tires on every other TV commercial and Ford did PP2, GT500 and Mach 1

So has your tune changed on why updating the model is important? I remember a few years ago you seemed quite content when GM got it right on the first try and didn't need to go back and add/tweak like Ford and Dodge do

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

Here's a video on youtube that shows an electric Gen7 Camaro testing at the Milford test track.

Originally Posted by Nilly Welson

Wow..listen to that engine roar!!

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Judging by the tach and speedometer readings, it looks like there's some sort of gear shifting going on.


Norm

I’m assuming that this was posted tongue-in-cheek. Why would an EV have a tach? Does anybody really care how fast the electric motor(s) is/are spinning? If so, add a zero or two to that tach.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I’d bet Ford drops the ICE Mustang as soon as they feel confident the Mustang Mach E has market acceptance. The Mach E was baby step in that direction so they didn’t end up with another Probe type blowback

It’s pretty clear that Ford is going to add a Mustang EV Sedan. Can’t remember if I’ve heard that directly from Ford or from other auto analysts. It makes sense. It’s why Ford has said they are making Mustang a sub-brand. You get your ICE coupe, you get your BEV Sedan and you get your BEV Crossover. How long will the coupe offer a V8? Probably depends on how long F150 keeps a V8.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Here in IL they charge more for plate renewal on EVs. A normal car is $151, EV is $250 with rumors it might go to 500

Ironically, there are more states penalizing BEV with higher registration fees than there are states offering incentives to purchase BEVs. Some states do both.

[Davy_Baby9]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The S650 looks a hell of a lot like the current S550.

https://www.drivingline.com/articles...rd-mustang-gt/

That’s definitely the current Mach 1 with the handling pack minus the spoiler.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m assuming that this was posted tongue-in-cheek. Why would an EV have a tach? Does anybody really care how fast the electric motor(s) is/are spinning? If so, add a zero or two to that tach.

Unless the whole thing is a put-on, I'd have to assume that it would be of an instrumented development mule.

How would we know if the rpms weren't being sampled downstream of, say, a primary gear reduction used to keep driveshaft rpms within reason?


Norm