[TheRealJA105]

Just to add to this discussion I had quite a few instances of Ice mode hard brake pedal with minimal actual braking force yesterday at Pitt Race TNiA. I attribute it to the Kumho ACR tires not having a sidewall (295/25R19s) and slight braking bumps on the track surface. I found that i had to not jump right on the pedal with full force and if i eased on then pressed hard i had no issues. Not confidence inspiring when trying to threshold brake I'll tell you that.

I had only run half a session on these tires before at Nelson Ledges when a belt separated internally on the one tire, so this was really my first experience with them.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I don't think Essex's point is necessarily wet boiling point is completely irrelevant. Just with a track car or race car it shouldn't be placed in importance over dry boiling point. Their comments are in respect to usage scenario.

With the "independent study" are you speaking about the Torque, the manufacturer of the Torque RT700 DOT 4 fluid, study? What percentage water did they test to? What is their test procedure?

The Motul manf spec numbers are off (i.e. probably old data)? Motul 600 is 594F/399F and 660 is 622F/399F. Viscosities are off, too, but close enough.

Bleeding interval... I agree is great to know, but, honestly, it's one of those things for a car to be tracked/raced a person should be checking this regularly... Outside of that, it's a nice margin of safety item.

The big advantage of SRF is being able to keep that fluid in the system for a year plus and not have to worry about the fluid degrading. Brake bleeds are something that still be checked regularly, although you can probably get away with less frequency than most other fluids.

A lot of people act like if you don't use Castrol SRF, that's a problem. My position is not that it is not a good fluid. My position is it isn't the only fluid to use.



And the Torque one shouldn't be considered one too?

Maybe I missed something posted about a study examining the rate of water absorption by DOT 3 or DOT4 in a sealed, modern vehicle system?

Is it stated (I don't see) or are we assuming the Torque experiment tested the brake fluids directly?

DOT/FMVSS equates 3.7% for 2 years in sealed vehicle system, and that number is derived off older automobile systems (70's). The standard does not test, directly, a specific brake fluid in question - it uses a reference fluid, like Torque states.


https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...e-brake-fluids

Thttps://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2012-title49-vol6/xml/CFR-2012-title49-vol6-sec571-116.xml

Well the Essex commentary tries to downplay the wet point the way i read it. Cleary irrelevant in true race team situation where fluids (and many other parts, including engines at times) get swapped for each race. But relevant for amateur use imo.

Yep that's the study. They reported % of water content found as part of the test. I recall seeing 2.2% in some cases? Sorry no time to verify as i am in a very long transit now (to hopefully see my new car!).

Agree that there are other solid choices besides SRF.
But even Essex pretty much agrees it is the best

Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Just to add to this discussion I had quite a few instances of Ice mode hard brake pedal with minimal actual braking force yesterday at Pitt Race TNiA. I attribute it to the Kumho ACR tires not having a sidewall (295/25R19s) and slight braking bumps on the track surface. I found that i had to not jump right on the pedal with full force and if i eased on then pressed hard i had no issues. Not confidence inspiring when trying to threshold brake I'll tell you that.

I had only run half a session on these tires before at Nelson Ledges when a belt separated internally on the one tire, so this was really my first experience with them.

I think there is a close relationship between the tires and the pads and the pads and the fluid. And then there is electronics on street cars that expect certain relationships as well. I dont profess to understand them all, but even brake manufacturers warn about the first one. As far as the last one, GM did join one of the threads (cant recall which forum) saying they couldnt possibly design ABS (and other systems) for an infinite range of possibilities and hence only stand behind stock set ups.

Anyhoo...a new PB at the Pitt or not?!

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I think there is a close relationship between the tires and the pads and the pads and the fluid. And then there is electronics on street cars that expect certain relationships as well. I dont profess to understand them all, but even brake manufacturers warn about the first one. As far as the last one, GM did join one of the threads (cant recall which forum) saying they couldnt possibly design ABS (and other systems) for an infinite range of possibilities and hence only stand behind stock set ups.

Anyhoo...a new PB at the Pitt or not?!

Agree about the combos as well as the ABS and Stabilitrak stuff, but as I have been thinking about this stuff, one thing that i think is actually better about my car being a regular SS and not a 1LE is the stock tire stagger was only 0.1". This should make my systems much closer to perfect with a square setup where the 1LE is looking for more stagger (0.4") Or it may not even be enough to matter

No new PB at Pitt at least not that i know of haha. I didn't even run track addict as the temperature was 95+. I will say the ACR tires definitely felt more grippy and handled the heat better than G3s, but they even still got greasy being that hot.

I do have a new PB from Nelson Ledges time trial Sunday on G3's however I'll get the video ready and added to the track times thread.

[Wontspeak]

Although the video is Corvette C8, what they’ve done for the brakes, and why, is very interesting.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Agree about the combos as well as the ABS and Stabilitrak stuff, but as I have been thinking about this stuff, one thing that i think is actually better about my car being a regular SS and not a 1LE is the stock tire stagger was only 0.1". This should make my systems much closer to perfect with a square setup where the 1LE is looking for more stagger (0.4") Or it may not even be enough to matter

No new PB at Pitt at least not that i know of haha. I didn't even run track addict as the temperature was 95+. I will say the ACR tires definitely felt more grippy and handled the heat better than G3s, but they even still got greasy being that hot.

I do have a new PB from Nelson Ledges time trial Sunday on G3's however I'll get the video ready and added to the track times thread.

Interesting comments about the SS vs 1LE. Congrats on the PB!

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Wontspeak

Although the video is Corvette C8, what they’ve done for the brakes, and why, is very interesting.

This is a great video! Interesting that brake by wire, can effectively give you more pedal travel to compress air in the lines to give you more brake than you normally would have. I would hope there there would be a warning to the driver to change the fluid.



Many of the C8 reviews kind of complain that C8 understeers, but the street -0.5 camber vs -3.0 track camber could explain it. I wonder if the cars being tested had the street camber.

[nasbagoat]

Of course they made it understeer out of the box. You dont want everyone crashing it because after 7 generations of front engine you suddenly put people who dont know how to deal with mid engine oversteer in that car.

Back when my store had a Lotus franchise I swear we did more body work on them then we did maintenance and repair, lots of people would spin them out during a mid corner throttle lift.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by nasbagoat

Of course they made it understeer out of the box. You dont want everyone crashing it because after 7 generations of front engine you suddenly put people who dont know how to deal with mid engine oversteer in that car.

yes of course, but when the car is being reviewed at the track, i wonder if they kept the street camber setting. The reviews i've read... i think the road and track Cammisa review? wrote of understeer at the track, sort of complaining about it. I wonder if was simply a matter of not having the track front -3deg camber settings.

[TrackClub]

Another wreck on Sunday. Pittrace.
At the kink. Anybody we know?

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Another wreck on Sunday. Pittrace.
At the kink. Anybody we know?

Deets?

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Another wreck on Sunday. Pittrace.
At the kink. Anybody we know?

A Gen6? The kink as in Turn 16?

[TrackClub]

Yep a pre 2019 SS 1LE and yep, looks like T16. A buddy sent me some pix (he was there doing TT).
Sadly, the car looks done. The driver "claimed brakes" according to my buddy. Haven't driven the circuit (yet), but from what i understand (from folks i know and Randy Pobst), dropping a wheel on exit there always ends badly.
That's all i know.

PS Sorry no pix, as i wish to respect privacy.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Yep a pre 2019 SS 1LE and yep, looks like T16. A buddy sent me some pix (he was there doing TT).
Sadly, the car looks done. The driver "claimed brakes" according to my buddy. Haven't driven the circuit (yet), but from what i understand (from folks i know and Randy Pobst), dropping a wheel on exit there always ends badly.
That's all i know.

PS Sorry no pix, as i wish to respect privacy.

Yeah... T16 is one you can go for a bit of an interesting ride.

With all due respect, lets not have this thread become one where we just report on the latest track incident involving a Camaro.

Claiming brakes can mean a lot of things...

Lets get all the facts, first, before we start to think "another one".