[Tbone98]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

With all due respect, this behavior isn't unlike how the Italian mob operated... Also, I read in some newspaper, not sure if it's true or not, that the average hourly pay of these UAW members about to strike at GM is $62, and their demands are something like a 50% raise and a 32-hour work week for 40 hours of pay, at which point, again if all this is true, I cannot sympathize with any of it, regardless of how much disdain I have for GM.

I want to be clear, my post has nothing to do in favor of or against, or the members themselves. Yes there are disruptions/inconveniences but I was pointing out, what I have read, as a lot of people don’t really know what a strike looks like and the various impacts from cars being made, to shipping them on truck or train, to dealerships losing sales and both employees and oems suffering financially. Here, we are used to 1 oem at a time. This yrs target of The Big Three is unprecedented and can devastate the economy, not only in Michigan, but the US. The Hoffa days of mob mentality may be behind us, the the impacts remain as strong

[ItsChristianInHD]

Originally Posted by Tbone98

“Harassing” can come in many forms. I don’t mean to imply violence. Maybe “inconvenience “ or “disruption” are better words at least for tech center employees. You have to remember there a a lot of union employees in the tech center also. So they will be out from picketing.

Back in the day when my dad was on strike at Ford, scabs were met w violence. Especially union employees that didn’t agree w the strike and crossed the line to feed their families.

I wish there was a like button for posts. Thank you for clearing that up because yeah when I envision harassing I think of poor Jeff trying to do his job, lol.

My grandfather didn’t tell me much about UAW strikes etc during his 30 years at GM, so, it all new to me.

[Tbone98]

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

I wish there was a like button for posts. Thank you for clearing that up because yeah when I envision harassing I think of poor Jeff trying to do his job, lol.

My grandfather didn’t tell me much about UAW strikes etc during his 30 years at GM, so, it all new to me.

Thank you. When I read the follow up I saw the possible misinterpretation and wanted to clear up.
My dad was an old River Rouge steel worker. If you know anything about the history of Detroit auto, you know there were some bad mf’s in the steel mills. They did not take kindly to people getting paid to do their jobs.

[Mrhorton]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

With all due respect, this behavior isn't unlike how the Italian mob operated... Also, I read in some newspaper, not sure if it's true or not, that the average hourly pay of these UAW members about to strike at GM is $62, and their demands are something like a 50% raise and a 32-hour work week for 40 hours of pay, at which point, again if all this is true, I cannot sympathize with any of it, regardless of how much disdain I have for GM.

I work at GM as a electrician and I fill in as union rep when needed. For starters, most production workers start off around $15 a hour with sub par benefits. I bet there total wage and benefits package is around $22 a hour. 90% of new hires quit. We have temps in my plant who have been temps for years with the promise of becoming full time.
Some of them are averaging 60 hours a week year round mandatory. Temps are required to work all overtime, they do not get profit sharing also. When the plant does a week shutdown at xmas and july 4th, traditional production employees get it off paid, the temps get it off with no pay
We cannot hire trades like myself because our wages are far lower than the industry standard. I make $36 a hour as a electrician and my total benefits package is about $62 a hour. The electrical contractor in my plant today doing a project that I can do is getting $46 a hour on the check with better retirement and better health care. With 3.7% unemployment, good luck finding anybody, especially when they know how low the pay is. Amazon is paying $19 a hour down the street literally. Our schedule is 2 out of every 3 Saturdays are mandatory. There are plants where your required to work 13 out of every 14 days. Last year we were on mandatory 7 12s for 90 days and that happens about once a year. How many people out there want to work that many hours? I'm averaging 3500 hours a year in the plant. The company knows they are in a bad spot. What you hear on the news is very biased and vague. Last week my plant fired 7 people. Yesterday I had to sit in on a meeting where a guy got 2 weeks off with no pay due to calling in sick because he had foot injections. He only gets 5 sick days a year and is working mandatory 9 hour days and 2 out of every 3 Saturdays. He had a Dr note stating to take the day off work due to feet injections. He called in sick and brought the note. Due to him not having any sick days left he got mandatory 14 days off work with no pay. He's already got a new job lined up. The big three was a great place to work for a long time. The last 15 years it's not and its getting worse.

[Mrhorton]

I'm looking at the offer GM brought to the UAW right now. Trades like me will get about $3.60 a hour pay increase over the next 4 years. That's about 90 cents a hour yearly pay raise. We got a 6% pay increase over the last 4 year contract. We all know the price of new cars went up over 6% a year. New hire temps will now start at $20 a hour instead of $15. The offer will be rejected. Unless they have a better offer, there will be a strike for sure.

[zedts1986]

Honestly, the longer I have to wait for my car the better off I’ll be financially. Ideally I take delivery in April, when the snow starts to melt here in Buffalo, NY. Might be able to pay cash if it goes to April and avoid these insane rates. In addition, my TPW was this week and it hasn’t been built yet, so I’m kind of hoping it doesn’t get built before the strike and then sit in a lot for 2+ months.

So all that said, the union has my full support. I’m in no hurry, go take care of yourselves and your families, and come back in a better position and build my incredible car.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Mrhorton

I work at GM as a electrician and I fill in as union rep when needed. For starters, most production workers start off around $15 a hour with sub par benefits. I bet there total wage and benefits package is around $22 a hour. 90% of new hires quit. We have temps in my plant who have been temps for years with the promise of becoming full time.
Some of them are averaging 60 hours a week year round mandatory. Temps are required to work all overtime, they do not get profit sharing also. When the plant does a week shutdown at xmas and july 4th, traditional production employees get it off paid, the temps get it off with no pay
We cannot hire trades like myself because our wages are far lower than the industry standard. I make $36 a hour as a electrician and my total benefits package is about $62 a hour. The electrical contractor in my plant today doing a project that I can do is getting $46 a hour on the check with better retirement and better health care. With 3.7% unemployment, good luck finding anybody, especially when they know how low the pay is. Amazon is paying $19 a hour down the street literally. Our schedule is 2 out of every 3 Saturdays are mandatory. There are plants where your required to work 13 out of every 14 days. Last year we were on mandatory 7 12s for 90 days and that happens about once a year. How many people out there want to work that many hours? I'm averaging 3500 hours a year in the plant. The company knows they are in a bad spot. What you hear on the news is very biased and vague. Last week my plant fired 7 people. Yesterday I had to sit in on a meeting where a guy got 2 weeks off with no pay due to calling in sick because he had foot injections. He only gets 5 sick days a year and is working mandatory 9 hour days and 2 out of every 3 Saturdays. He had a Dr note stating to take the day off work due to feet injections. He called in sick and brought the note. Due to him not having any sick days left he got mandatory 14 days off work with no pay. He's already got a new job lined up. The big three was a great place to work for a long time. The last 15 years it's not and its getting worse.

Mr Horton, thank you for your firsthand information, I felt that this news coverage about wages was suspect, but it's very hard to get at the truth these days.

Needless to say, this is definitely not how employees should be treated, and I'm not opposed to letting companies learn that the hard way.

If the "32 hours of work for 40 hours pay" part is also false, then I have to mostly walk back on my initial opinion, and I hope it is false, because that would rub me the wrong way as a principle, regardless of pay grades.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by Mrhorton

I'm averaging 3500 hours a year in the plant.

So you made almost $200k last year? Sorry, not going to get any sympathy from me!

-Geoff

[24LT1guy]

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

So you made almost $200k last year? Sorry, not going to get any sympathy from me!

-Geoff

126k. The number you're using is the total benefits one. He doesn't get that. He claims $36/hr. Which i can see be accurate.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by Mrhorton

I work at GM as a electrician and I fill in as union rep when needed. For starters, most production workers start off around $15 a hour with sub par benefits. I bet there total wage and benefits package is around $22 a hour. 90% of new hires quit. We have temps in my plant who have been temps for years with the promise of becoming full time.
Some of them are averaging 60 hours a week year round mandatory. Temps are required to work all overtime, they do not get profit sharing also. When the plant does a week shutdown at xmas and july 4th, traditional production employees get it off paid, the temps get it off with no pay
We cannot hire trades like myself because our wages are far lower than the industry standard. I make $36 a hour as a electrician and my total benefits package is about $62 a hour. The electrical contractor in my plant today doing a project that I can do is getting $46 a hour on the check with better retirement and better health care. With 3.7% unemployment, good luck finding anybody, especially when they know how low the pay is. Amazon is paying $19 a hour down the street literally. Our schedule is 2 out of every 3 Saturdays are mandatory. There are plants where your required to work 13 out of every 14 days. Last year we were on mandatory 7 12s for 90 days and that happens about once a year. How many people out there want to work that many hours? I'm averaging 3500 hours a year in the plant. The company knows they are in a bad spot. What you hear on the news is very biased and vague. Last week my plant fired 7 people. Yesterday I had to sit in on a meeting where a guy got 2 weeks off with no pay due to calling in sick because he had foot injections. He only gets 5 sick days a year and is working mandatory 9 hour days and 2 out of every 3 Saturdays. He had a Dr note stating to take the day off work due to feet injections. He called in sick and brought the note. Due to him not having any sick days left he got mandatory 14 days off work with no pay. He's already got a new job lined up. The big three was a great place to work for a long time. The last 15 years it's not and its getting worse.

I spent thirty years at GM as a salaried engineer working with represented people in both design areas and assembly plants. During contract talks over the years one constant has always, always been exaggerated claims of what union workers are paid.

Companies leak "total hourly cost" figures to feed this fake issue. They generate these numbers by adding what they claim the total benefit package cost adds to the base hourly wage, leading to the subliminal effect of "Gee, those guys make a lot of money and they want HOW much more?"

The institution of two tier wage and benefit packages, for both hourly and salaried workers, was a sad day.

[zedts1986]

Originally Posted by 24LT1guy

126k. The number you're using is the total benefits one. He doesn't get that. He claims $36/hr. Which i can see be accurate.

And $126k for working an average of 67 hours per week (probably more like 70-72 hours/week after taking out any time off) is absolutely not something that I would be interested in.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by zedts1986

And $126k for working an average of 67 hours per week (probably more like 70-72 hours/week after taking out any time off) is absolutely not something that I would be interested in.

Yeah, screw that. IMO, this all just shows how off the rails GM is now. Between how they don't want to take care of their workers and the fact that they want to go all in on EV and their questionable quality issues as of late, it all just shows me that the company as a whole has a skewed view of reality. I'm genuinely worried about the future of GM.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by 24LT1guy

126k. The number you're using is the total benefits one. He doesn't get that. He claims $36/hr. Which i can see be accurate.

Plus about $50k in benefits based on his hourly rate of $26 (math from his total minus base) in benefits. And around $15k in profit sharing too.

-Geoff

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by zedts1986

And $126k for working an average of 67 hours per week (probably more like 70-72 hours/week after taking out any time off) is absolutely not something that I would be interested in.

I don't disagree with that at all. But you know, that was the job when he took it!

I worked for Aerotek in 1999 and was placed in Detroit Hamtramck for a while during a launch. We would be in there on Memorial Day, and the guys in final process would be high fiving each other about getting $500 for one day of work (I assume holiday plus double time or triple time or something). So don't kid yourself, they play the victim at contract time, but love the pay the rest of the time.

-Geoff