[ardailsmith]

I'm sure this argument has been going on for years. The first electric headlights,
"Thats not areal car a real car has oil lanterns not this electric light bulb."
"Thats not a real car a real car has a crank in the front to start it, not some electric doohickey."
"Thats not a real car real cars are chain driven."
"Thats not a real car real cars don't have doors or a roof."
And on and on.

Just give it up the AT has been around longer than the any car model that is on the street today, It is not going away.

Take Elsa's advice and let it go

Camaro owner should be like this

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Trans damm

Well said. When I buy it will be the Lt4 version. A weekend/track toy. I'm not concerned by traffic,gas, or anything else. I have driven a stick most of my adult life. I just can't swallow the loss in performance to row gears. If performance was totally equal it would be a stick without a doubt. But with this technology I don't know if I can buy a stick just so others would be impressed ?? Or I would feel more like a man. Lmao. I'll feel more like a man running 9's in an auto.

That sir, is why you are a winner! Here is your trophy:

Try not to gloat.

[Bizaro]

Originally Posted by Trans damm

Well said. When I buy it will be the Lt4 version. A weekend/track toy. I'm not concerned by traffic,gas, or anything else. I have driven a stick most of my adult life. I just can't swallow the loss in performance to row gears. If performance was totally equal it would be a stick without a doubt. But with this technology I don't know if I can buy a stick just so others would be impressed ?? Or I would feel more like a man. Lmao. I'll feel more like a man running 9's in an auto.

I recommend you buy a GTR for yourself.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Trans damm

I don't know if I can buy a stick just so others would be impressed ?? Or I would feel more like a man. Lmao. I'll feel more like a man running 9's in an auto.

If you opt to buy either a manual or an automatic (or any other tranny type, for that matter) to impress others or to "feel more manly", you've based your choice on the wrong reason(s).


Norm

[10aSSee D]

Actually an auto is much more forgiving than a manual on parts and unless you are a exceptional driver you will not out shift the auto. Fastest 5th gen may be a stick but it has a dang good driver behind the wheel. My 5th gen is a stick and I love shifting gears with the power I have now but it is a handful at times.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it. But the afm might hold me back from the auto. My cousin is an engineer at GM and also builds engines etc. knows his stuff. He had a long list of complaints about afm when the mods begin. Notably forced induction.

Lots of it stuff that may not happen. Lot of it was over my head. But he sure did make it sound a lot less reliable and troublesome when making big power.

He claims valve float in applications over 8 psi with stock afm lifters.... That one stuck out in my head. For many this won't matter...

I have always owned manuals. And they will always be hard to beat from a roll and have less drivetrain loss. I know some don't consider it real racing and it is dangerous. But I have been in more roll races than from a stop... And your not going to beat a good driver in a manual from a roll with equal cars. Your simply putting down less power. Enough that it will show from a roll if they know what they are doing ( like I do lol)
But man the newer autos sure are getting hard to beat at the track.

I'm completely torn lol... Gonna have to drive both for sure.

[Trans damm]

Originally Posted by Bizaro

I recommend you buy a GTR for yourself.

I do like them, I have gave it serious consideration. I just like American cars to much. I do love the new M4 as well.

[Trans damm]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Not to be rude..your knowledge and experience with modern automatics are very very sorely lacking.

These are not the TH350's and TH400's of old or the 4L60E's, these are supremely modern, extremely fast shifting units. These transmissions shift in the realm of 200 milliseconds, which is actually faster than the DCT from the 911.

Things change, technology evolves and things move forward. The fastest Hellcats are autos, the fastest 392 Challengers are autos, the fastest 5.0 Mustangs are autos.

I know for many the automatic vs manual debate is a very, very emotional issue, and that is how most people think in the process, emotionally. The days of the automatic being slower are done, and have been for a while now.

[Trans damm]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

If you opt to buy either a manual or an automatic (or any other tranny type, for that matter) to impress others or to "feel more manly", you've based your choice on the wrong reason(s).


Norm

Maybe you didn't sense the sarcasm.. That was in response to prior comments about the "man" pedal and such..

[mt3130]

There is a lot of incorrect information stated in this thread. At this point, a decision to drive a manual is a personal preference, because the autos are faster and better on gas, assuming the same engine is used for both (I have to say that since the 5th gen autos and manuals get different engines).

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by mt3130

There is a lot of incorrect information stated in this thread. At this point, a decision to drive a manual is a personal preference, because the autos are faster and better on gas, assuming the same engine is used for both (I have to say that since the 5th gen autos and manuals get different engines).

A manual with a great driver IS NOT slower in a roll race. I' have almost always had some type of camaro in my garage with a manual since 2004.

Most don't consider it real racing and I know it's dangerous... But here is reality. I've been in far more roll races than from a stop. Seeing another car on the highway that wants to run happens all the time and it's easy. In my over 10 years of experience yes the auto will be faster from a stop (especially nowadays)

In a highway race depending on speed you may only need to make a couple shifts. You have less drivetrain loss. If your good they have no chance all else being equal. Seen it too many times...

Guess what I'm saying is that in the real world and not at the track a good driver in a manual can still prevail. I would lose more often with an auto with the experiences I have had in life.

But like I've said I'm def torn right now...

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Not to be rude..your knowledge and experience with modern automatics are very very sorely lacking.

These are not the TH350's and TH400's of old or the 4L60E's, these are supremely modern, extremely fast shifting units. These transmissions shift in the realm of 200 milliseconds, which is actually faster than the DCT from the 911.

Negative. You're perverting the argument and hearing what you want to hear. Your definition of "fast" strictly applies to upshifts. It does not apply to downshifts, and in no way will you get anything close to the throttle response of a manual. There is a built-in lag with the automatic transmission itself, and just because it is better than a 700r4 doesn't mean it's anything close to a TR6060.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Things change, technology evolves and things move forward. The fastest Hellcats are autos, the fastest 392 Challengers are autos, the fastest 5.0 Mustangs are autos.

Fix your sentence.

"The fastest in a straight line at WOT on average."

They put down less power, so while they will win most of the time in a perfect straight line at full throttle, the potential is there for a manual to win given an excellent run. At anything that doesn't involve a full-throttle straight line - which is nearly 100% of the time you will spend in a vehicle - they are slower. Not that it matters, because nearly 100% of your car's life will be spent NOT RACING, so buying anything based on racing unless it is a dedicated track car is ridiculous. These cars just perform better daily driving with a stick. They're built for it. They're lighter, they're more nimble, there is more control. If it's a Honda, get the auto, but there's something different about these cars.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I know for many the automatic vs manual debate is a very, very emotional issue, and that is how most people think in the process, emotionally. The days of the automatic being slower are done, and have been for a while now.

It isn't really emotional. The market is the way it is because most don't know how to drive a manual transmission anymore. If everyone was forced to take their driver's test in a manual transmission, you can bet a lot less automatics would be sold when it comes to cars like Camaro's, Mustang's and Challenger's. The overwhelming majority of these cars will never see any kind of significant drag strip time. Many will never run a 1/4 mile once. Automatics rule out of necessity. My simple point is this - take a crash course driving a stick, then decide. Too many people buy the auto because they think they have to, then try to justify it because they're embarrassed. There is no need to be. Take a few whacks at a friend's car, then throw yourself to the wolves if it's what you really want but you feel like you can't do it.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by mt3130

There is a lot of incorrect information stated in this thread. At this point, a decision to drive a manual is a personal preference, because the autos are faster and better on gas, assuming the same engine is used for both (I have to say that since the 5th gen autos and manuals get different engines).

It takes a lot more power to turn an auto. Where is this myth that they are better on gas? Every generation of Camaro ever made, the manual has been better on gas. The manual is significantly more efficient than the automatic in a 5th gen despite the fact it has 26 more horsepower and doesn't have AFM.

What makes you think the 6th gen will be more efficient on gas in the auto? Automatics are heavy to turn. All that parasitic drivetrain loss adds up quickly.

[62nalide]

I'm after 1/4 mile time so I'll be getting a A8