[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I guess I’m schizophrenic. I have a Camaro SS and a Chevy Volt in my garage. And one o’ these days that Volt is gonna be replaced by a Cadillac Lyriq or some other BEV.

Yeah, my ebike has replaced a lot of car trips. It's more fun than driving in traffic and there's a lot of bike paths around here. I work from home and live close to grocery stores, etc. so a 2nd small EV car would be nice but too much money to justify the few miles it would be driven.

[Jofu]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Buying a Camaro right now doesn't mean I "don't give a crap." You don't NEED to be either extreme of the spectrum

AMEN TO THAT, brother!

Geoff

[Realist]

I don’t mind the push toward EV’s. It’s the additional costs to move to them that I’m not a fan of. To me, it has always been about cost (ok and style). The demand is more then what manufacturers can meet for EV’s right now, let the market work itself. It’s a natural progression to move to EV’s with China being the biggest auto market now. The cost to re-electrify this country at a rushed pace and tremendous cost seems crazy to me. To me, the utility companies should have been working to improve their infrastructure as time goes by, instead the profits went to the shareholders. Same with changing stations, let businesses pay the cost or the auto manufacturer and not taxpayers. That’s the problem when there isn’t enough competition, the big corps can just go to Uncle Sam and see the costs get past to the taxpayers, many already overburdened. We saved GM, they had the Volt a decade ago they finally are close to offering EV’s people have an interest in, yet the prices are crazy. On a positive note, Im finally seeing some sedan, pickups and suv EV’s with style (still waiting to see a 2 door coupe).

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

You disgusting hypocrite. You can pick one or the other, not both. /s

Ok, now you’ve hurt my feelings. Maybe I’ll sell them both and buy a diesel powered motor home and live off the land.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

I won't be going anywhere, thanks.

I am honest with myself: I won't be putting on 12-15K miles a year onto my Camaro, because I'll be tooling around in my electric truck most of the time. It's likely it'll just be a nice weather warrior. I might even get bored of it and sell it with the truck purchase, who knows.

Whether you like it or not, I, too, can spend my money as I please. For right now, there are no fun EV sports coupes out there for "me", and I want to downsize right now while my trucks value is good.

Buying a Camaro right now doesn't mean I "don't give a crap." You don't NEED to be either extreme of the spectrum: either a super-polluting asshole who gives no f-cks, or an extreme tree-hugger. But at least be intelligent enough to realize that ICE is going away, and it's coming quick.
Either get ready for that, or get out of the way. And right now, anyone desperately trying to do anything they can to stop EV progress is just in the way.

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

You disgusting hypocrite. You can pick one or the other, not both. /s

I am not an extremist, but again, I just really don't like it when people on sports car forums act all "holier than thee" because they own an EV or care about the environment.

And coming to an ICE sports car forum to say EV is better... I get it, but yeah, you are gonna be booed a lot.

And here is a good counterpoint to your argument about ICE cars going away: maybe it will go away as an A-to-B tool, sure, but as a hobby? Nah. Old Nintendo games on NES and SNES and vinyl records are perfect examples. Yeah they are absolutely obsolete when compared to modern Switch/PS5 and your Smartphone, but people collect those for passions and hobbies. That's not something you can just replace with "eVs ArE fAsTeR aNd ClEaNeR". Heck, that's even the case with classic cars. Modern cars are better in every objective measure. Doesn't make classics worthless.

I dunno, I just can't really feel engaged without driving a stick. Yes, traffic sucks sometimes, but it's a compromise I can live with for now. I am sure EV will entertain me for like 3 months before I will want a stick shift, even if it's paired to a 4-cylinder family car. I learned stick because I got so bored driving an auto.

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Yeah, my ebike has replaced a lot of car trips. It's more fun than driving in traffic and there's a lot of bike paths around here. I work from home and live close to grocery stores, etc. so a 2nd small EV car would be nice but too much money to justify the few miles it would be driven.

I was doing some biking, except it rains and now snows in my neck of woods, so it just sits now.

I personally just buy older used cars and have some fun trying them out. Some areas are also somewhat convenient with public transit in my area, particularly with SkyTrain (which is just the subway system here).

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Also, not wanting to do our part simply because "the other guys" aren't doing their part is a weak excuse, too. Why SHOULDN'T we be trying to lead the way? And on that note, we aren't even in the top 10 of "cleanest" countries in the world.

But it is actually useless, though.

https://youtu.be/yiw6_JakZFc

Basically, our societies have to have a massive reform if you actually want to see any effects. Just adjusting the price level of groceries because there is no longer fuel subsidies for transportation industries would make people raise their arms. People are already mad at the price levels of everything now, you wanna make it more expensive?

You also have to consider that European countries are generally smaller, so things like public transportation and smaller EVs work better there. Climate plays a big role as well - unless you are willing to freeze yourself to death, you will have to use heating in winter. Same with A/C in summer. Smaller population helps as well. And none of the countries on that list is exactly known as economic giants, other than the UK, France and Germany, but those are rookie numbers compared to the US. Then there is the elephant in the room, which is the cultural difference. Canada is probably closer to European culture than the US but even then, we are still not that much like Europe. Basically, asking North American countries to be as clean as European countries is not entirely realistic.

[Palutz]

I’ll never forget the day I pulled up to a light in my Z/28 next to a Dominos delivery smart car or whatever they’re called. I looked at the guy and he looked at me and gave him one rev of that beautiful 7 Liter 427 CI 505 HP LS7 monster under the hood. Light turned green and I punched it … looked in the rear view mirror and the smart car was flipped over. True story.

I’ll end up getting an EV to have next to my future ZLE, but nothing can replace the raw experience of a manual V8 muscle car. Period.

[LT4Greg]

What concerns me is gas going to be $10.00 a gallon or more or even available when they start trying to phase out ICE vehicles for EVs and the push to destroy these cars/trucks to force everyone to buy an EV. That will be a severe blow to us working class people in my opinion.

[DangerZL1]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

What concerns me is gas going to be $10.00 a gallon or more or even available when they start trying to phase out ICE vehicles for EVs and the push to destroy these cars/trucks to force everyone to buy an EV. That will be a severe blow to us working class people in my opinion.

I can't imagine spending $180+ on filling up a car that gets 14 mpg driven conservatively.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Basically, our societies have to have a massive reform if you actually want to see any effects. Just adjusting the price level of groceries because there is no longer fuel subsidies for transportation industries would make people raise their arms. People are already mad at the price levels of everything now, you wanna make it more expensive?

I agree. the basic issue is 7+ billion people can't drive around 2-ton transportation devices everywhere they go on a whim. All 7B people can't have thousands of sqft of living space to themselves with large grass lawns that suck up tons of water.

IMO we've screwed ourselves by allowing 3rd world countries to live in poverty for decades, of course it's a very complex problem but the population of modern, well educated countries tends to level off while in the 3rd world they tend to grow much faster. In any case the end result is far too many people in the world living in unsustainable ways because we've been unwilling or unable to help lift people out of poverty and educate them.

It's getting to the point we can't deny the effects of climate change, it's causing massive changes in weather. My home was less than 2 miles away from the Marshall Fire in CO that just burnt down almost 1000 homes. We've been in drought with the strangest weather I've ever seen since I moved here in '92. Months of oddly warm weather with lots of wind and NO rain or snow. The last 2 summers have had weeks of wildfire smoke in the air. Earth is becoming a far less hospitable place to live. As a result we're going to see panic and unreasonable knee-jerk policy that doesn't really address the basic issues and tries to maintain our current system without major changes that are really required.

[Z OH 6]

Well, in fairness, China is the biggest polluter on the planet due to their very heavy use of coal. Seems like many other countries are working hard to clean up their own backyard and China is WAY behind everyone else. Given that China, the US and India are the three most populated countries in the world, I'm not surprised to see them leading the rest of the world.

https://climatetrade.com/which-count...bon-polluters/

[BrandanK]

Guys; there is certainly some good discussion here; but we are WAAAYYYYYY off topic.

Let's get back to the Lethal Garage bashing please.

[SFV1LE]

There are cool characteristics of ICE engines, the sound, feel, rumble, etc. Also ICE engines may seem more reliable in some way because you don't need to worry about the engine failing in a blink from an electronic or battery power glitch--but ICE engines fail all the time from electronic glitches.

How about Hydrogen ICE engines? Hydrogen ICE can run with zero to super low CO2 emissions, and make tons of ICE power. How's this for combustion rumble?...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/inde...E_test_A-1.ogv

[Z OH 6]

I'm a fan of hybrid engines, best of both worlds. Small V8 paired with one or more electric motors, like some of the hypercars.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BrandanK

Guys; there is certainly some good discussion here; but we are WAAAYYYYYY off topic.

Let's get back to the Lethal Garage bashing please.

Or maybe even discussing without bashing? Realistically, he’s given a lot to the Camaro community. He just happens to be dangling way far out on the wrong limb at the moment.