[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Chevy offers the best performance bang for the buck.

$57,045 GT350
$44,495 SS 1LE

$64,545 GT350R
$63,795 ZL1 M6

$68,285 Hellcat A8
$66,190 ZL1 A10

The SS, GT, STR level is more complicated to outline but the same holds there for performance per dollar. Chevy doesn't do poor performing V8 per dollar...at all really.

I do however agree that the 1.7L blower should not be in the Camaro. PERIOD.

I get that Camaro is the best bang for the buck, but that isn't my point. If GM built a GT350 style Camaro, with unique engine, core support and sheet metal, it would probably be an $80k+ car. The Z/28 is already an example of that. Outside of the wiring, rear seat, thinner glass and DSSVs, the Z/28 was a parts bin car. The LS7 was 10 years old by that point, the MM6 was used in the 1LE and the brakes were shared with the Z06.

[14Black1LESS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

How is it not cost effective? Both Ford and Dodge do it. The only one that doesn't is GM.

ADM has no bearing on whether or not a unique engine is cost effective.

What is Dodge doing it on? The Hellcat engine is being shared between a few models, the Demon is only a one year run and its basically the Hellcat engine with some tweaks to it. Dodge did this to the Viper and they were losing money on it by not sharing any parts from it with any other vehicles. It was only a few years ago when they decided to put the V10 in their truck but it was a little too late by then. The GT350 and GT350R have the same engine, so in a way its being shared. If you want a unique engine for one model only, then the car would end up costing way too much and there probably wouldn't be a lot of them sold. Again it is not cost effective to do this.

[14Black1LESS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That sounds like the ideal Z/28 to me. It does not need to be the end all be all of performance for the Camaro line up.

The only problem with your plan there is the weight, that would be a tall order IMO, that would make it weigh the same as a Corvette Grand Sport

Very true but they need to lose some weight in the Corvette's also. I know that's getting harder to do with all the electronics they keep adding to the cars.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I get that Camaro is the best bang for the buck, but that isn't my point. If GM built a GT350 style Camaro, with unique engine, core support and sheet metal, it would probably be an $80k+ car. The Z/28 is already an example of that. Outside of the wiring, rear seat, thinner glass and DSSVs, the Z/28 was a parts bin car. The LS7 was 10 years old by that point, the MM6 was used in the 1LE and the brakes were shared with the Z06.

Expensive parts bin.. DSSVs, LS7, carbon ceramic brakes..

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Expensive parts bin.. DSSVs, LS7, carbon ceramic brakes..

The only part unique to the Z/28 was DSSVs...

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The only part unique to the Z/28 was DSSVs...

Just because it's not unique doesn't mean it's not expensive. I'm not sure why people are so against parts bin if majority of the parts are great. Granted, unique is cool, but doesn't make a car better objectively.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Just because it's not unique doesn't mean it's not expensive. I'm not sure why people are so against parts bin if majority of the parts are great. Granted, unique is cool, but doesn't make a car better objectively.

I think Bhobbs just doesn't want the Camaro to have to be tied to the Corvette.

Granted, Corvette is a pretty damn good place to pull parts from lol

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Just because it's not unique doesn't mean it's not expensive. I'm not sure why people are so against parts bin if majority of the parts are great. Granted, unique is cool, but doesn't make a car better objectively.

I'm not saying it should be unique to be cool. I'm saying it should be unique, so it doesn't depend on a car with different goals. Corvette going a different direction is why there won't be a 6th gen Z/28. Corvette going a different direction is why the ZL1 is stuck with a smaller blower than it was last generation.

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think Bhobbs just doesn't want the Camaro to have to be tied to the Corvette.

Granted, Corvette is a pretty damn good place to pull parts from lol

The base engine is generally fine. My issue is that doesn't generally apply at the higher power levels. LSA to 5.8 Trinity, LS7 to 5.2 Voodoo, etc.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I'm not saying it should be unique to be cool. I'm saying it should be unique, so it doesn't depend on a car with different goals. Corvette going a different direction is why there won't be a 6th gen Z/28. Corvette going a different direction is why the ZL1 is stuck with a smaller blower than it was last generation.



The base engine is generally fine. My issue is that doesn't generally apply at the higher power levels. LSA to 5.8 Trinity, LS7 to 5.2 Voodoo, etc.

The last time I looked the business statement for both Corvette and Camaro was to be the best performance sport coupe offerings for the money bar none. I think they have nailed it for the past few generations. Regardless if Corvette comes out with a rear mid engined car it will be tasked with offering more for less without rapping us the consumers over the coals. How is that going a different direction from team Camaro?

I'm sorry but the GT350's flat plane crank is no more unique than say a flat plane crank engined Ferrari or whatever, it's just bigger cubes and american made. Not at all unique on its own just slightly different. The goal at the end of the day is how to make effective power production for the given task.

I give ford kudos for making it but I'm not sold that the voodoo will be a durable solution for reliability reasons and for all it's' so called uniqueness it barely beat the Z/28 with it's parts bin decade old engine at Laguna Seca and that was due more to the carbon fiber wheels, not the voodoo.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I'm not saying it should be unique to be cool. I'm saying it should be unique, so it doesn't depend on a car with different goals. Corvette going a different direction is why there won't be a 6th gen Z/28. Corvette going a different direction is why the ZL1 is stuck with a smaller blower than it was last generation.



The base engine is generally fine. My issue is that doesn't generally apply at the higher power levels. LSA to 5.8 Trinity, LS7 to 5.2 Voodoo, etc.

Motor Trend put both the 5th generation Z/28 and GT350 on a chassis dyno and they both put the same amount of power to the wheels, also the LSA was from the CTS V while the LS9 was used by the Corvette.

[soloknight6]

I think the 6th gen z28 will feature the same weight loss strategy of the 5th gen z28, with carbon fiber wheels wrapped in ridiculously wide rubber added to match the gt350R. Carbon ceramic brakes would also be standard. Suspension would be carried over from the ZL1 1LE. Wishful thinking would put the weight of the car around 3,500 lbs, about 600lbs less than the Zl1. I believe the car will also have very aggressive aero to boot. The powertrain will most likely be some iteration of the current 6 speed, with an ELSD, 3.91 gears, all mated to an LT376/535 screamer. Or some version of it.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ines/lt376-535

The car would be priced above the ZL1 1LE, as it would be the track monster with the faster time.

[Supercup]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The only part unique to the Z/28 was DSSVs...

Well not exactly right - unless you feel like if they come from the GM parts bin they are not unique - but had a lot of changes from SS 1LE

See Attached from GM Marketing

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

The last time I looked the business statement for both Corvette and Camaro was to be the best performance sport coupe offerings for the money bar none. I think they have nailed it for the past few generations. Regardless if Corvette comes out with a rear mid engined car it will be tasked with offering more for less without rapping us the consumers over the coals. How is that going a different direction from team Camaro?

.

bhobbs is referring to the fact that when team corvette couldn't hit their power goals NA and went supercharged that kind of dictated the path for the rest of GM performance. Once the Z06 got the LT4, it trickled down into Cadillac and Camaro( again not the worst place to pull from lol)

Now last gen they said the Z/28 cant be supercharged. Well the only place they can pull engines from is Corvette. Top dog corvette right now has the LT4, most are assuming that the ZR1 Corvette will have an even more powerful supercharged engine. Also a no go for the Z/28.

What Corvette does, Camaro must follow at least based on recent history.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

I think the 6th gen z28 will feature the same weight loss strategy of the 5th gen z28, with carbon fiber wheels wrapped in ridiculously wide rubber added to match the gt350R. Carbon ceramic brakes would also be standard. Suspension would be carried over from the ZL1 1LE. Wishful thinking would put the weight of the car around 3,500 lbs, about 600lbs less than the Zl1. I believe the car will also have very aggressive aero to boot. The powertrain will most likely be some iteration of the current 6 speed, with an ELSD, 3.91 gears, all mated to an LT376/535 screamer. Or some version of it.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ines/lt376-535

The car would be priced above the ZL1 1LE, as it would be the track monster with the faster time.

ZL1 weighs 3,900 pounds, not 4,100.. ZL1 1LE weighs even less.