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Old 10-25-2023, 02:59 PM   #1009
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post
Unless you have central bank digital currencies tied to ESG scores...
Well that conversation would go way to far down a different rabbit hole, that would get me warning #2 about political posts.

I think peoples opinion are greatly persuaded by the area they live. i.e. I see maybe one EV a day out on the roads around where I live. If I go up north to where our land is, I may see one EV every couple months if that. Some people may see 5 EV's a day parked in houses in their neighborhood. (IDK....?) But if they did, those people would probably tend to think that EVs will be the next big thing.
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Old 10-25-2023, 04:57 PM   #1010
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Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
I think they really should have gone more hybrid, more alternate fuels, and EV all together. I know several of you have said the same. It just makes more financial sense given the infrastructures.

It would certainly be different if the batteries were recyclable or re-usable in a mainstream sense. They're not, so it's just hazardous waste that we're putting in the ground all the time.
EV batteries are actually very recyclable, as well as remanufacturable.
https://li-cycle.com/
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Old 10-25-2023, 05:34 PM   #1011
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmone...ic-trucks.html

A few snippets


'Electrification is a governmental and environmental initiative. It is not consumer driven,' said Joe McCabe, President and CEO of automotive consultancy AutoForecast Solutions.

'There are early adopters, and the early adopters have adopted,' said McCabe, suggesting that those adopters tended to be richer city-dwellers, sometimes dubbed 'urban cowboys'.

But he said more typical mass market consumers are held back by cost and 'range anxiety' - fears they can travel far enough in an electric truck without needing to find somewhere to charge.
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Old 10-25-2023, 06:06 PM   #1012
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
EV batteries are actually very recyclable, as well as remanufacturable.
https://li-cycle.com/
https://www.lithiontechnologies.com
https://www.redwoodmaterials.com
Electric Vehicle Battery Recycling

In 2020, approximately 550,000 EV batteries reached the end of their lives, and it is estimated that approximately 150 million more batteries will be generated by 2035. The global recycling rate of electric vehicle batteries is currently approximately 5%.[2] The remainder are either stockpiled, for recycling or reuse at a later date, or disposed of in landfill.

Exploring the Recycling Rates of Electric Vehicle Batteries

While there is no definitive global figure for the recycling rate of EV batteries, estimates suggest that the current recycling rate is relatively low. According to a report by the International Energy Agency (IEA), only about 5% of lithium-ion batteries, which are commonly used in EVs, are recycled worldwide. This low recycling rate can be attributed to several factors, including the lack of proper infrastructure and standardized recycling processes.

It's the internet... You can always find articles to support whatever side of any topic you want to talk about.
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Old 10-25-2023, 07:00 PM   #1013
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If recycling lithium batteries was profitable, it'd be happening en masse, all on it's own. When the raw material price reaches a high enough point to make to make it profitable, we probably won't care about buying EVs, anyways. Don't worry, the goverment will pass another "anti-inflation" bill and and we'll get some new green solyndra style recycling start ups, for a while.

FWIW, some recycled materials are never as good as raw materials. They get oxidized, contaminated, mis-handled during disposal, whatever. I remember in an old job, running cereal boxes made from recycled cardboard through a QA metal detection system. There were so many false positives for metal, not from the food, but from the packaging, people putting cardboard and paper in the recycle bins with paper clips, staples, etc. It just wasn't worth the hassle/expense to get a clean recycled product. There were never any issues running product made from raw materials.
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Old 10-26-2023, 02:04 AM   #1014
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Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
I won't go the EV route unless I literally have money to burn because I just don't think it's practical or good for the environment.
Im sorry, filling your car up at home for 10% of ICE cost and zero tailpipe emissions isnt practical or good for the environment? Are we in Reverso world or something?

Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?
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Old 10-26-2023, 04:48 AM   #1015
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Originally Posted by docwra View Post
Im sorry, filling your car up at home for 10% of ICE cost and zero tailpipe emissions isnt practical or good for the environment? Are we in Reverso world or something?

Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?
Please just stop using this stupid argument. The ONLY reason you can charge your car so cheap right now is because the ICE vehicle drivers are still paying all the taxes for you. If/When EV's become mainstream you will not be charging your EV up for less then what it costs you to fill your tank with gas. guaranteed...! The states and fed will not just simply give up the tax revenue. As drivers add EVs to the grid the electric companies will raise their rates. They will need to support all the new EV charging and update their grids. How do you think they will do that? So not only will your rates go up due to EV charging, but now that means your rates will be up for all your electric use... Your electric use for your home today... Up...! Oh... and before you say I'll use solar... Well maybe you will, but the masses can't even afford the damb EV, so how are they going to afford to invest in solar on top of trying to afford the EV? It's not a practical option for most people.

It's no different then the masses cutting the cable cord for streaming. What did all those companies do? First as the masses cut the cord the cable companies just start to jack the price of their internet service. I used to pay less then $50/month for internet now I have to pay over $100/month for the same service. Same goes for all the streaming services. As users started to join their services like YouTube TV, Netflix, etc.. the costs went higher and higher. Now if you have Youtube TV or Hulu and a decent internet service it costs you just as much as it did when you had the cable company for both internet and TV.

Electricity bills are surging, is it still cheaper to charge an EV than get gas? It depends.

Last edited by jamala00; 10-26-2023 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 10-26-2023, 05:44 AM   #1016
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Originally Posted by docwra View Post
Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?
Bigger question should be where's electricity prices going to be in 5 years' time? I'm thinking that 10% is going to be a much larger percentage, unless price manipulation comes into play. To which I wouldn't put it past any of the ones who call the shots.
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Old 10-26-2023, 07:18 AM   #1017
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Originally Posted by el ess A View Post
Bigger question should be where's electricity prices going to be in 5 years' time? I'm thinking that 10% is going to be a much larger percentage, unless price manipulation comes into play. To which I wouldn't put it past any of the ones who call the shots.

Most power companies are regulated in the us and simply can’t raise the kilowatt price at will whenever they feel like it


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Last edited by Windycity; 10-26-2023 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 10-26-2023, 07:45 AM   #1018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docwra View Post
Im sorry, filling your car up at home for 10% of ICE cost and zero tailpipe emissions isnt practical or good for the environment? Are we in Reverso world or something?

Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?
First, good luck finding chargers as easily as a gas station. Secondly, charging in many places is almost as expensive as gas stations in some regard. Thirdly, trying to have an EV and not own a home is unpractical realistically. Last, but not least, aside from Rivian and Tesla, I've yet to see a decent sized EV worth a crap.

I'm 6'3" and due to my shoe size, I'm roughly 6'8" sitting in a car. Trying to sit in these tin can EV cars is a no go...
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Old 10-26-2023, 08:19 AM   #1019
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Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
Most power companies are regulated in the us and simply can’t raise the kilowatt price at will whenever they feel like it.
So you are trying to tell me that if xyz company decides to put up new charging stations... they can't get the charging stations built and then charge you whatever they feel like? What regulations are stopping the charging stations from charging what they want?

Maybe the electric company is regulated and can't simply up the cost of the service to the charging station whenever they feel like it, but that doesn't mean the charging station can't up the prices of what they are charging the person with the EV... Right?
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Old 10-26-2023, 08:23 AM   #1020
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Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
So you are trying to tell me that if xyz company decides to put up new charging stations... they can't get the charging stations built and then charge you whatever they feel like? What regulations are stopping the charging stations from charging what they want?

Maybe the electric company is regulated and can't simply up the cost of the service to the charging station whenever they feel like it, but that doesn't mean the charging station can't up the prices of what they are charging the person with the EV... Right?

My comment was mainly focused on homeowners charging at home

Charging stations can up their prices to whatever they want but the actual price for electricity is set pre kilowatt hour from the power company


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Old 10-26-2023, 08:24 AM   #1021
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Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
First, good luck finding chargers as easily as a gas station. Secondly, charging in many places is almost as expensive as gas stations in some regard. Thirdly, trying to have an EV and not own a home is unpractical realistically. Last, but not least, aside from Rivian and Tesla, I've yet to see a decent sized EV worth a crap..
Not to mention... how many people are in my boat, everyone in my neighborhood is. If I bought an EV and wanted to charge it at home.

1) I'd have to get the main service to my home upgraded.
2) I'd have to dig up the electric cable that goes from my house to my detatched garage to upgrade it.
3) I'd have to upgrade the subpanel in my garage
4) I'd have to rip down the drywall in my garage to run a wire to where I'd need to install the Level II Charger
5) Then I'd have to repair the drywall, the yard, etc...

That is all on top of buying the EV... Why on earth would I do any of that? What would the cost of all that be? Thousands...!
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Old 10-26-2023, 08:30 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
My comment was mainly focused on homeowners charging at home

Charging stations can up their prices to whatever they want but the actual price for electricity is set pre kilowatt hour from the power company
If you truly don't believe that whatever regulations would need to be changed to pass on the cost to the consumer to upgrade the power grid so that charging vehicles (if EVs become the main auto type) at home or whatever can be done... Well... I think that is simply being a bit naive.
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