[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Because the vast majority of the US car enthusiast world is oriented toward drag racing.

Part of that is because drag racing has always been more accessible (whether that be at a sanctioned dragstrip or on some other straight stretch of pavement). It's generally easier for teens before and immediately after getting their freshly-minted licenses to understand how to drive a car fast in a straight line than to know what it takes to drive it fast - and cleanly - around the corners. Let's not overlook the fact that driving that's brutal/harsh/noisy/smoky simply puts up a more exciting show for the onlookers.

Been that way since before I started driving (early 1960's).


Norm

Not only that drag racing is generally a hell of a lot cheaper lol. I can go to GLD and make passes all night long for $35

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok well then there was a miscommunication on both our parts. I was talking about the best that any ZL1 has done against the best that any GT350R has done. But if you wanna compare the slowest ZL1 to the fastest GT350R then I guess you're right. By comparison tho, the 13-14 GT500 with 663 hp did the quarter mile in a range from 11.5-11.9 seconds. So at 650 hp with more weight and more options I would still say an 11.8 out of the ZL1 is pretty darn good. And the difference in MPH between the GT350R and ZL1 tells the story.

The misunderstanding was all yours , I asked my question clearly. Apples to apples is the best way to compare the 2 cars. The slow Gt350 is not far behind the Z for a car down that much power when compared apples to apples.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The misunderstanding was all yours , I asked my question clearly. Apples to apples is the best way to compare the 2 cars. The slow Gt350 is not far behind the Z for a car down that much power when compared apples to apples.

Dude, almost half a second when in the low 12s is a butt kicking. The slowest ZL1 whups the fastest GT350R by 4 tenths of a second in a straight line AND at WS, lol!! But keep trying to defend it. The fact is that for an all out track car the GT350R is a failure bro.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The misunderstanding was all yours , I asked my question clearly. Apples to apples is the best way to compare the 2 cars. The slow Gt350 is not far behind the Z for a car down that much power when compared apples to apples.

And what I also find interesting is that you guys keep talking about the hp advantage yet you fail to mention the weight of these cars. The GT350R has the weight advantage by being 200 pounds lighter. That weight advantage helps compensate for the lower hp. And it still doesn't come close.

[Norm Peterson]

Trying to compare cars that would compete in different classes is an exercise in futility. A demonic merry-go-round that can never stop.


Norm

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Trying to compare cars that would compete in different classes is an exercise in futility. A demonic merry-go-round that can never stop.


Norm

I have to disagree. Because the comparison put them both on a circle track and then on a drag strip. They were comparing the best Camaro available to the best Mustang available. They have always done this with rival vehicles so it is nothing new. And it also goes to prove that like I've been saying from the start, the Shelby is a track-focused car and lost on the track to a car that is not track-focused. That is a failure on Ford's part if you ask me.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Dude, almost half a second when in the low 12s is a butt kicking. The slowest ZL1 whups the fastest GT350R by 4 tenths of a second in a straight line AND at WS, lol!! But keep trying to defend it. The fact is that for an all out track car the GT350R is a failure bro.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And what I also find interesting is that you guys keep talking about the hp advantage yet you fail to mention the weight of these cars. The GT350R has the weight advantage by being 200 pounds lighter. That weight advantage helps compensate for the lower hp. And it still doesn't come close.

Dude...Bro. I'm done, we get it you hate the GT350, but I haven't anymore time to waste responding to your nonsense. Preach on

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I have to disagree. Because the comparison put them both on a circle track and then on a drag strip. They were comparing the best Camaro available to the best Mustang available. They have always done this with rival vehicles so it is nothing new. And it also goes to prove that like I've been saying from the start, the Shelby is a track-focused car and lost on the track to a car that is not track-focused. That is a failure on Ford's part if you ask me.

And yet, the GT350 still demands admin. Hardly a failure. Ford built a niche road/track vehicle with outstanding performance. To say it's a failure because it doesn't excel on the 1/4 mile, or because it (barely) lost to a vehicle with a f'ing huge hp and torque advantage is just plain ignorance.

Did they pit the 2010 GT500 against the 2010 camaro SS, as they were both the best each manufacturer had to offer?

[1295/SS]

I respect all performance cars regardless who the manufacturer is. I've always leaned towards GM products but recently sold a 700 rwhp '03 Cobra that was a blast. But the Mustang guys making every excuse in the book is laughable.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

And yet, the GT350 still demands admin. Hardly a failure. Ford built a niche road/track vehicle with outstanding performance. To say it's a failure because it doesn't excel on the 1/4 mile, or because it (barely) lost to a vehicle with a f'ing huge hp and torque advantage is just plain ignorance.

Well that just shows idiocy on the part of the buyer. There are plenty of people who chose not to get that car because of the ADM...even as little as $5K over. And again, you guys keep talking about the hp difference but fail to bring up the weight difference. But just face it man, on a road course the GT350R is outclassed by the ZL1 and I would bet the SS can hang with it. The GT350 is outclassed by the SS. And I'd bet the V6 1LE can beat the GT.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Did they pit the 2010 GT500 against the 2010 camaro SS, as they were both the best each manufacturer had to offer?

Why yes, they did.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...ro-comparison/

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well that just shows idiocy on the part of the buyer. There are plenty of people who chose not to get that car because of the ADM...even as little as $5K over. And again, you guys keep talking about the hp difference but fail to bring up the weight difference. But just face it man, on a road course the GT350R is outclassed by the ZL1 and I would bet the SS can hang with it. The GT350 is outclassed by the SS. And I'd bet the V6 1LE can beat the GT.

Again, ignorance. Just because others choose a car based on more than just 1/4 mile and track speed doesn't show idiocy.

As for weight difference, it doesn't take a genius to know that the HP to weight ratio for the ZL1 absolutely destroys the HP to weight ratio of the GT350R. The ZL1 is better on the straights and the GT350R is better with the brakes and turns. It just so happens the sure power of the ZL1 is just too much to overcome.

You just can't seem to deal with the fact that many still choose the GT350R over the Zl1 can you? It just blows your mind that the GT350R is seen by most reviewers as the superior drivers car.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Why yes, they did.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...ro-comparison/

Words eaten.

[ULTRAZLS1]

the 350r was built to be a drivers car and strictly track focused. Not sure what the big surprise is on that front.

Compare the 350r to the zl1 1le if you want a comparison to a track focused zl1

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

the 350r was built to be a drivers car and strictly track focused. Not sure what the big surprise is on that front.

Compare the 350r to the zl1 1le if you want a comparison to a track focused zl1

The gap will widen and the Mustang crowd will still whine about the hp advantage.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Again, ignorance. Just because others choose a car based on more than just 1/4 mile and track speed doesn't show idiocy.

As for weight difference, it doesn't take a genius to know that the HP to weight ratio for the ZL1 absolutely destroys the HP to weight ratio of the GT350R. The ZL1 is better on the straights and the GT350R is better with the brakes and turns. It just so happens the sure power of the ZL1 is just too much to overcome.

You just can't seem to deal with the fact that many still choose the GT350R over the Zl1 can you? It just blows your mind that the GT350R is seen by most reviewers as the superior drivers car.



Words eaten.

The ZL1 is 6.0 lb/hp while the GT350R is 7.1 lb/hp. So it just seems you want it both ways. You wanna cry that they aren't natural competitors but then you wanna talk about how well you think the Shelby did. And then you wanna talk about the hp advantage and how you think the ZL1 should have won by a bigger margin despite the fact that the the weight helped offset the extra hp. But then you Mustang guys wanna talk about how the GT350R carries more speed thru the corners and has better handling. But guess what...all of that is why the GT350R is pathetic. Because it is good at only two things...high revs and cornering. But it isn't good enough at both of those areas to win. The ZL1 corners, accelerates, carries enough speed thru the corners, brakes well enough, and has much more power, and puts all of that together well enough to completely obliterate the GT350R. The Shelby is a one-trick pony that isn't good enough at what it is good for to beat the ZL1 which is an overall better performing car. That is why the ZL1 outperforms the GT350R. The Shelby is better at 2 things while the ZL1 is good enough at everything to be overall better. So stop trying to justify the Shelby's pathetic performance.