09-13-2021, 01:49 PM | #85 | ||
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
|
Quote:
The fewer platforms make sense financially, and it's fine for your average family vehicle, but I would think performance vehicles will need dedicated platforms regardless, not only is it good for the performance and helps those vehicles achieve their full potential, but there is more sincerity to the car crowd in developing a dedicated platform for performance vehicles. And yes, I can still see ICE existing in cases like emergency vehicles, even in hybrid forms. The greater flexibility is still not matched by EVs. Same with long-distance transportation, unless the battery energy density issue is properly addressed. Something I forgot to mention, I also don't personally think EVs solve many issues for me. Driving in the city blows just about as much in an EV as an auto trans car, and parking is still a pain. For me, something like a bicycle or electric scooter is more appealing because they solve these city issues. Maneuvering and parking are far more flexible with bicycles and scooters, provided that the weather cooperates. Quote:
Besides, you know that diesel engines cost a lot, yeah? Practically all cars that come with a diesel option have the diesel engine as the most expensive one. They are very complicated to make emission-compliant, and they have to be tough to deal with the high compression ratio they run at. They may spit out less than a gas engine, but the stuff they spit out is far worse. Soot and NOx are not major items of concern with a gas engine, but they are with a diesel. NOx needs DEF in a diesel engine to keep in check, and that needs to be replenished to keep working. It's just kinda pointless when you can just make a simple gas engine and have it run on Atkinson cycle, like Toyota. Plenty reliable, cheap, efficient and less fussy emission control.
__________________
Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) Last edited by UnknownJinX; 09-13-2021 at 02:00 PM. |
||
09-13-2021, 02:07 PM | #86 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,370
|
Quote:
Your diesel based solution has the same basic problem that caused GM to drop the Chevrolet Volt (I have one of those in my garage, so I'm not hating on the Volt). Automakers would have to commit to the cost of two propulsion systems. Hard to get past that. The closest "solution" to that is Nissan's ePower system that works well in Japan, but will likely never see the light of day in the US. It is basically a Volt without the ability to plug-in. Works fine for Japan, because who has a place to plug in anyway? Most of the city population lives in high rises. They don't make extension cords long enough (<--joke). The vehicle runs 100% on power provided by electric motors. But there's a small ICE that runs almost continuously to provide power to the emotor. It's basically an EV that is not zero emissions. Almost zero chance of making it to the US. By the way, we've just started publicizing this. I'll be speaking on this topic at Motor Bella next week. Motor Bella is an event that's been put together to fill the void created by the cancellation of the 2021 NAIAS.
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
|
09-13-2021, 02:35 PM | #87 | |
Hot Camaro
Drives: '20 2SS Convertible 6MT Join Date: May 2020
Location: CT
Posts: 3,539
|
Quote:
Using a very small diesel engine as nothing but a power generator (and feeding that power purely to keep the batteries charged) is very different and actually allows the engine to run in a significantly more efficient manner (constant RPM). And opting for diesel over gasoline is really a measure of less complexity, fewer overall parts, etc. |
|
09-13-2021, 02:37 PM | #88 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,370
|
Quote:
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
|
09-14-2021, 06:00 AM | #89 | |
Account Suspended
Drives: 2017 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: May 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,692
|
Quote:
In any case the way I see it, from all the negative comments, the only way to think is that either way, no matter what, regardless of any choice that is made, we're all simply just hopelessly fcuked and there are no answers at all. EVs are an extremely horrible system that will destroy grids and leave entire cities in blackouts indefinitely and it'll lead to chaos and rampant violence and mayhem. Gas powered vehicles will continue to pollute the planet until our air in unbreathable and we'll all have to wear respirators to go outside or suffer mutations and cancers OR until we run out of gas and the entire planet will be submerged in an unbreakable cloud of darkness for all of eternity. So oh well. The world is screwed. We're all screwed. We have like 20 years left and then that's it. Maybe the government should take to American Muscle Car forums to see all these expert ideas on how to save the planet and then present this overwhelmingly intelligent expert information that people's daughters in college and son's in high school and other extreme experts in these fields have to say. Maybe the top scientists in the world will finally listen and say "hey guys, we learned soo much from a car forum. We're gonna save the planet". Of course I joke. But it is not as horrible as you all are trying to make it out to be. Gasoline engines have had their time. We came a long way from the days of old tech. However even if gas engines do become more efficient, there are still many more people driving. Populations are increasing exponentially. 10 years ago there were statements that we are facing overpopulation within 50 years. That was 10 years ago. Kids who were 7 then are all now driving and adding to the amount of cars on the road. So what is the difference between 5 cars that emit X amount of emissions vs 10 cars that are more efficient and emit half those emissions? What happens when the population continues to increase disproportionately? So either way, gas engines have got to go. If you don't believe me then come to North Jersey during rush hour traffic and sit there for 1 hour going nowhere. Or better yet, go into NY during rush hour. |
|
09-14-2021, 12:53 PM | #90 | ||
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,947
|
Quote:
(And how is a diesel engine less complex, anyway? Lack of spark plugs? But they need glow plugs to ensure proper cold start. Lack of a catalytic converter? But they need DEF injection system to keep NOx in check as well as soot filters to limit soot emissions, and DEF is a consumable item unlike a catalytic converter. Gotta throw a DEF tank warmer in there as well because that stuff has a relatively high freezing point. The only thing I can remotely think of is a VVT system, but that's barely anything in this day and age considering practically every gas car you can buy has it.) And again, this is where economy of scale rears its ugly head again. Now you are asking manufacturers to R&D a dedicated diesel engine that is only useful for this specific application, then market it(incredibly large risk, again thanks to VW), all of that just for some marginal gain in efficiency. Meanwhile, they could just take an existing gas engine, modify it slightly so it can run on Atkinson cycle, then use it in a hybrid drivetrain. No fuss with marketing. What do you think manufacturers will do? And really, the car is effectively an EV at this point, so I don't really care if it has an ICE anyway. Quote:
You wanna complain about traffic? Then EV doesn't solve sh*t. Plain and simple. Just means you are emitting less since you don't have to idle, but you are still miserable behind the wheel, and that's what matters to me(and a lot of others, I can confidently say). With any car, ICE or EV, parking in downtown area still sucks. Again, if you don't deal with the traffic, take a bus/train or ride a bicycle. But what if you must need a personal transportation capsule? Well you gotta reliably automate all cars which is another whole can of worms. There are also ideas about developing a competent train system which could also help. The point is, you have to revolutionize the way the roads work to solve the traffic and number of cars issue. I don't claim to be an expert, far from it. I just hate Kool-Aid on both sides of the extreme, that's all. And if you think government always supports good green technology ideas, think again. Look up solar roadways if you want a good laugh. P.S. I personally couldn't care less about the environmental arguments; we as a society will probably blow ourselves up anyway before the environmental damage takes its toll. Again, another can of worms that I am not gonna open.
__________________
Current:
2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
||
09-14-2021, 02:58 PM | #91 | |
Hot Camaro
Drives: '20 2SS Convertible 6MT Join Date: May 2020
Location: CT
Posts: 3,539
|
Quote:
DEF is NOT used in engines under something like 115HP as it is not required. A 45-50HP diesel engine would be fairly capable of being used for nothing more than a small electrical powerplant. Even where DEF is required, variable RPM diesel engines consume somewhere around 1 gallon of it per 1000-ish miles of operation (give or take). With engines like I referred to above, there would be no need for DEF (although we all know the EPA would stick their noses into it at some point). There are vehicles on the road that use engines that have been modified to run, at least part of the time, in Atkinson-Cycle "mode". But these engines are ALSO designed to be able to directly power the vehicle if need be. That's different than the concept of a diesel-electric setup. Reduced complexity is derived from not just lack of spark plugs (which also don't require high-voltage / high-current plug wires or any sort of distributor / electronic ignition system) but also from "less stuff" throughout the entirety of the system. As you mentioned, no catalytic converter required on these kinds of systems). The varying RPM of engines in cars and trucks is why we have so many additional components to monitor and control exhaust outputs. |
|
09-14-2021, 04:59 PM | #92 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,370
|
Quote:
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | Last edited by Martinjlm; 09-15-2021 at 01:30 PM. |
|
09-15-2021, 12:26 PM | #93 |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 14,442
|
An article about forward progress Europe, etc. and other fun facts about energy sources...
I thought it was interesting and telling, anyways... https://www.wsj.com/articles/energy-...ng-11631528258 |
Post Reply
|
|
|