[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

The way these new structures are being built though in regards to stronger materials and chassis construction, it still seems possible to have t tops.

I wouldn't throw it out for this generation or the next with all the improvements they have made


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those stronger materials and improved chassis construction were used to lower the overall mass of the car. It is possible to do T-tops, but as Number 3 asked ... how much $$ would you pay and how much mass would you allow overall in the car? Odds are, most that want T-tops wouldn't accept the cost (in money or performance) to make it a reality.

Lets turn this whole argument around .... if there is lots of demand for T-tops, and its cheap and easy to do with no performance or usability penalty, why is it that not a single automaker does them? Wouldn't it be a huge opportunity for not just GM, but Ford, Fiat-Chrysler, Nissan, and everyone else? If nobody is doing them, perhaps its not as popular, cheap, easy, or penalty-free as T-top supporters believe. Well, unless there is collusion amongst fierce competitors to deny potential customers a feature they want because of unspecified reasons.

[laborsmith]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I always wondered why they weren't called I tops. Or if looking at them from either side, H tops.

All well, miss them just the same. I've had many trans ams, and all of then had t-tops. You couldn't own a trans am in the late 70''s without them and still be cool. Lol

Me too. Both I and H. Never understood the T.

But I do not miss them. No way and no how.

Laborsmith

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

An automotive engineer who works in the industry just explained why it's impossible to do so at Camaro's price point.

Doesn't mean it can't be an expensive option. Someone would pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

Doesn't mean it can't be an expensive option. Someone would pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends on the cost and potential customers at that price point.... May be like the Z/28, for the price they need to charge there would be few customers.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

Doesn't mean it can't be an expensive option. Someone would pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GM isn't going to engineer something for 10 people. Sorry.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM isn't going to engineer something for 10 people. Sorry.

They might if each of those 10 people was willing to pay millions of dollars

[bobby97z]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM isn't going to engineer something for 10 people. Sorry.

I agree with you!! I doesn't seem to be in high demand. Realistically I don't see it happening. It would have been seen at the release, but I do miss them! Personally, I love t tops but Is 6500 or even 10k worth it. I don't know?? But that is what keeps me debating on just getting a c7 or wait for the unthinkable t tops to emerge in the future for the camaro. I can see both sides. Aughhhhhh

[Number 3]

Look, I understand the desire. I had them on cars I've owned and driven.

As Angrybird pointed out if it were easy to do somebody would be doing it. The Jeep does, but it is effectively a convertible. You could do a 2 piece but that attached to itself would not be robust for leaks, windnoise, and of course structural rigidity.

I'm not really sure how anyone keeps coming back with "but space age materials......".

I've done this stuff, guys. I've run many FMVSS 216 tests in my career and I've had to create designs to meet that specification.

IT.........AIN'T........SIMPLE and there are no "space age materials" that make it any easier AND cost effective.

If I had a marker board I'd draw you guys a picture and then maybe you would understand why it's really, really hard to do.

But cars that had T-tops

Nissan 300Z
Ford Mustang
Olds Cutlass
Buick Regal
Pontiac Grand Prix
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Camaro
Pontiac Firebird
Dodge Magnum
Dodge Aspen

More?

So simply ask, with a long history of this feature...................why is there nothing in production that is technically a T-top? Many Targas, many convertibles, many sun/moon roofs. No T-tops. Why is that? Would be a huge market differentiator wouldn't it? But none. Ford used to have it on the Mustang but not for many years. Why, oh why would you expect it to be possible on the Camaro?

So it could happen. I believe it is feasible. But you wouldn't like the result.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM isn't going to engineer something for 10 people. Sorry.

Well who decided we needed a panoramic Vista roof? There couldn't have been more then ten people that would have even know what it was before they came out. Now almost all of the manufacturers have a version of it. Someone engineered that before there was even a market for it. There is obviously a market here. Since I've been on here in 2009 there have been thread after thread after threads of people wanting them to return. I understand cost out weighing benefit for manufacturers, but to say your market is only ten people is just wrong. They would sell a ton. The problem is that is sounds like from all the experts that "are in the know" here, that they would need to sell more than a ton to make money so it won't happen. That makes sense to today's way over regulated world we live in.

[ardailsmith]

I don't understand why the guys that want T-Tops just don't go and get them done aftermarket.

They would have there T-Top and everyone would be happy. If they are so sure it can be done and the car won't losse any structural integrity.

Or is there a reason they want it done by GM?

[Galts Disciple]

I work for an OEM in body design and I have been involved in designing countermeasures for bodies that have failed the FMVSS 216 test. Number 3 has laid it out very clearly as to why it would be very difficult to offer T-tops, not just in the Camaro but any modern day car. Watch the video he posted, http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...87168CEDA7B384 and pay attention to the placement of the ram. It contacts the the corner joint where the header, A-pillar and roof rail connect and it runs rearward along the roof rail back to the B-pillar. On a T-top roof that is going to be the weak point. There are no exotic materials that can make up for that amount of lost structure.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by ardailsmith

I don't understand why the guys that want T-Tops just don't go and get them done aftermarket.

They would have there T-Top and everyone would be happy. If they are so sure it can be done and the car won't losse any structural integrity.

Or is there a reason they want it done by GM?

You don't understand. Really? I can think of many reasons why someone wouldn't want their 40k plus car cut apart by someone who may or may not know what the hell they are doing and then charging 8 to 10 to do it.

[laborsmith]

Originally Posted by motorhead

You don't understand. Really? I can think of many reasons why someone wouldn't want their 40k plus car cut apart by someone who may or may not know what the hell they are doing and then charging 8 to 10 to do it.

There's the answer. Cars & Concepts did so many aftermarket convertible conversions that it prompted GM to start offering convertibles once again.

If there is a sincere demand, the market will find it and if the demand is high enough the big auto makers will find a way to meet it.

Laborsmith

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ardailsmith

I don't understand why the guys that want T-Tops just don't go and get them done aftermarket.

They would have there T-Top and everyone would be happy. If they are so sure it can be done and the car won't losse any structural integrity.

Or is there a reason they want it done by GM?

Because aftermarket conversions are not as "elegant" and not covered by warranty.

Yep, a lot of guys can go cut a hole in a roof. Heck I did it to install a sunroof in my S-Truck many years ago. But coming up with the trim that looks great, a panel that looks great and the latches and mechanisms that look great and operate seamlessly is a HUGE deal.

If you are doing an aftermarket conversion, you have a lot of littles to get right in order to have something really nice.

If the OEMs did it, it would look and fit better.

Plus, can anyone post up the price for the aftermarket conversion? I'm guessing $5,000 or more.

I guess these guys want $6,500 and they are just painted body panels, not the tinted panels everyone is also really hoping for (at least I think that's what everyone wants. But no pictures of the interior, no pictures of the seals and water management, etc.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/cu...500-25512.html

In 2002, T-tops were apparently $995

http://www.poltergeist.us/page/SS/Do.../SS_Window.jpg

So that may be the answer.