[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Excuse excuse.... Drag mode is not this end all magical thing to give the times. Take a base GT add the 10 speed and no other options and it's still a low 12 second car and reasonably priced. You keep using every excuse to down the mustang, first by saying there is no way they could run an 11 pages ago to now using the price of the car with options as being higher than the Camaro as an excuse. You're grasping for straws now. You already put your foot in your mouth saying one thing after another that's been disproved now you're desperate.

Actually it has shown to help with them at the same track same day. Ask steph93. Drag mode was good for a couple tenths and mph. Why would ford even implement it if it did nothing? They even advertise that it takes that package to achieve the under 4 0-60

If you look at the gear splits etc and if gm does it right the a10 coukd take off a couple tenths on the SS. 5th gear kills the car as is. It’s a big gearing drop. The 2.77 gear is a bit low as well

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I guess I would say that the improvements Ford made from ‘17 to ‘18 are impressive. They came from way behind to making it a driver’s race. They did not score an unconditional win, but matching the performance of an SS is certainly not failing. The SS is an awesome car. Now the GT is on the same page, at least in acceleration. Throw in handling and there’s need for another discussion. Every SS handles like a champ. Certain optioned up GTs can handle almost as well and can be modded to handle as well. I prefer mine out of the box.

This is the main reason why we here are NOT impressed with the GT. Because like you said, they are just now catching up. We've been here all this time. So them finally getting here is nothing to us. To THEM it is a big deal. But not to us. And again, at the same price, the GT managed to catch up in only one area. The SS does everything well. The GT at the same price does one thing well and it took 3 years to get to that point.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I tend to facepalm when people compare displacement of OHV and OHC engines. It’s almost as if they suddenly fail to realize that displacement is the size of the holes, not the size of the metal. Because of the extra hardware needed to house the extra camshafts, chains and other smaller components, OHC engines are typically physically LARGER than OHV engines of similar displacement. It is pretty much common knowledge that for non-boosted OHV engines, hp/l ranges in the 65 - 75 area (LT1 is 74) and OHC engines tend to be in the 80 - 95 range. GT is 92, Bullit is 96, GT350 is a really impressive 108. To get to those numbers the engine has to be spun pretty fast, so now it becomes a question of where you want (and can use) the hp.

If an LT1 and a Coyote were placed side by side on pallets, the Coyote would be the physically larger engine (not by much) and they would be pretty close to the same on weight.

Also, if you note the characteristics of each engine, then it would be understood that when an OHV and an OHC engine are the same exact displacement, the OHC engine WILL ALWAYS make more HP/TQ. That is the benefit of the DOHC engines and why the V6s are all DOHC now. Because a 3.7 pushrod engine cannot make the same power as a 3.7 DOHC engine while retaining driveability, emissions, MPGs, and other considerations.

But the advantage of the pushrod engine is that it's smaller size allows you to have much more displacement in basically the same or smaller physical space. LT1s are 6.2 liters because they can be. They can be even much larger in displacement than that. And that makes up for the limitations an OHV engine has.

So on one hand, you have a pushrod that can use displacement to make up for it's deficiencies. While on the other hand, the nature of the DOHC engine and it's high revving attributes allow it to make up for displacement limitations. They both utilize their strong suits to make up for what they lack.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

I really cant take someone serious that types like a 13yo girl on snapchat. Regroup and try again.

And I can't take a 12 sec Civic driver who nuthumps Mustang boys serious.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

I doubt you'll see any better 1/4 times between the 8 and 10 speed.. Not much difference. The upgrade to the 10 for the mustang was a needed upgrade. It's surely not going to add 5mph of trap speed to the Camaro either.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Those 2 extra gears spread out over a smaller RPM range than the GT and with the extra torque the pushrod LT1 engine has should be enough to improve it's performance. The GT has to get into it's power range while the SS will have already been there. Then with the trans keeping it in it's sweet spot we should see the SS staying ahead of the GT. And we won't need special options and a Drag Mode to do it.

I’ll go out on a limb and say that the difference in performance of the SS A10 vs SS A8 will not simply be a matter of +2 gears. It is also a matter of powerflow engineering and shift speed. Pretty much every journalist and professional driver who has driven the ZL1 A10 has commented on the lightning fast shift speeds of the A10, some even offering the opinion that it shifted faster than Porsche’s dual clutch. The powerflow for the A10 is different than the powerflow of the A8. That and improved electronics combine to deliver the faster shifts. Even though the SS A10 and ZL1 A10 will not be the same part number, the differences will be in torque handling capability, not powerflow or shift speed.

I haven’t driven an ‘18 Mustang yet and I do not know if the Ford A10 uses the same powerflow as the GM A10 or if GM engineers tweaked it along the way. Both companies have tweaked the designs of the transmissions that they have co-developed. But then, changing powerflow is typically more than a tweak. It usually involves significant engineering work, supported by patent filings. So it is very likely that both use the same powerflow and have similar or same shift speed.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Yes it will. Mustangs have run 245's since 1999 and many guys on spray ran low 12's high 11's on the stock tires. I ran 12's in a FWD civic on 195 series all seasons over 15 years ago.

I don't think so. Sorry. The base A10 has no dragmode so you are dealing with restrictive torque management. And it doesn't have the 3.55 gears. And I don't believe for a second 245 all seasons are going to get it into low 12s.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And I can't take a 12 sec Civic driver who nuthumps Mustang boys serious.

No it ran mid 11's on slicks, and I am quite proud of the cars I've owned including the civic. I'm not a narrow minded fool, I respect and enjoy all types of cars and people have always shown respect back to me in person because my cars were quick and tastefully done.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

And I don't believe for a second 245 all seasons are going to get it into low 12s.

Don't believe all you want. People have been doing it for almost 20 years in the mustang world. It will happen with an 18 and then we will come back and show the proof and people will use excuses again.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’ll go out on a limb and say that the difference in performance of the SS A10 vs SS A8 will not simply be a matter of +2 gears. It is also a matter of powerflow engineering and shift speed. Pretty much every journalist and professional driver who has driven the ZL1 A10 has commented on the lightning fast shift speeds of the A10, some even offering the opinion that it shifted faster than Porsche’s dual clutch. The powerflow for the A10 is different than the powerflow of the A8. That and improved electronics combine to deliver the faster shifts. Even though the SS A10 and ZL1 A10 will not be the same part number, the differences will be in torque handling capability, not powerflow or shift speed.

I haven’t driven an ‘18 Mustang yet and I do not know if the Ford A10 uses the same powerflow as the GM A10 or if GM engineers tweaked it along the way. Both companies have tweaked the designs of the transmissions that they have co-developed. But then, changing powerflow is typically more than a tweak. It usually involves significant engineering work, supported by patent filings. So it is very likely that both use the same powerflow and have similar or same shift speed.

What I'm saying is that it will be able to stay in it's sweet spot much longer due to those 2 extra gears. I'm sure GM will tweak it to the LT1's specific power curve. And I'm sure it will have lightning fast shifts while in sport/track/race mode. So that is not really a concern of mine. I think it will be good for a couple tenths at least. I think we'll be looking at a 12 flat to 12.1 sec SS.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

No it ran mid 11's on slicks, and I am quite proud of the cars I've owned including the civic. I'm not a narrow minded fool, I respect and enjoy all types of cars and people have always shown respect back to me in person because my cars were quick and tastefully done.

I don't care.

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

and then we will come back

That's a strange statement to make. Was that a slip up? Kinda sounds like maybe you own a Mustang...which would explain why you're fanning it up soo hard for them...

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Don't believe all you want. People have been doing it for almost 20 years in the mustang world. It will happen with an 18 and then we will come back and show the proof and people will use excuses again.

Kinda like how someone has run 11.77 with an SS and it doesn’t count ?

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Kinda like how someone has run 11.77 with an SS and it doesn’t count ?

I don't doubt that time at all. I've seen a 11.9 SS in person, 11.7's on a good day at the right track is completely believable. I think the mustang can run the same times also.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Was also just thinking....

Looks like the gap in performance from the a10 gt to m6 and a8 ss to m6 is not the same. The gap is larger in the mustang.

To me this is also proof that the a10 will improve the SS.

We’ll see. Im not trading either way. Not a fan of the refresh and I’m too invested in mine

[zx9rmal]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I see some on the 'other' site bragging about the fact that the Coyote matches the Lt1 with only 5 liters. True, but it needs to rev to 7500 rpms to do it. Some see that as an advantage, I don't, especially for daily driving.

Reminds me of a quote in a road test from 1969, comparing my '69 Z/28 with other muscle cars of the era. "Revs for torque is no bargain for the street."

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So I guess that now it doesn't matter if the testing is done on the same day and same track or not...right??

whose tested them same day besides MT 12.5@115 vs 12.6@115 for M6 cars? Is that dominating?

Has any "unbiased, official" source gone 11.98 in a Camaro in any conditions in the 3yrs they have been testing it?

Has Anyone gone 120mph in a stock SS in any conditions in the 3yrs they have been out?