[MR2Aaron]

Originally Posted by Puddin

Still doesn't solve the space issue and just the all around better livability the other two have.

I'm not sure I agree about the Challenger. The one I had as a rental had an arguably better interior than the Mustang or Camaro (it's at least bigger), but holy crap it was SO BIG on the outside. I felt like I was parking an Iowa-class battleship, and I was constantly worried I'd bump the front end into the walls in the parking garage at the hotel where I stayed.

The Challenger kind of suffers from one of the drawbacks of the Camaro, which is that the hood doesn't slope downwards very much out at the front, meaning that even forward visibility isn't as good. The Mustang is better about this, along with its better visibility over the shoulder and to the rear.

You're totally right, though, that the fact that the Mustang is just more civil to live with probably contributes a lot to why it outsells its competition. Also, earlier in the S550's run, it was cheaper by about $5K than the Camaro or Challenger. I paid under $30K for my base model 2017 GT, and the best deal I could find on a V8-powered Camaro or Challenger at the time was more like $35-40K.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

I'm not sure I agree about the Challenger. The one I had as a rental had an arguably better interior than the Mustang or Camaro (it's at least bigger), but holy crap it was SO BIG on the outside. I felt like I was parking an Iowa-class battleship, and I was constantly worried I'd bump the front end into the walls in the parking garage at the hotel where I stayed.

The Challenger kind of suffers from one of the drawbacks of the Camaro, which is that the hood doesn't slope downwards very much out at the front, meaning that even forward visibility isn't as good. The Mustang is better about this, along with its better visibility over the shoulder and to the rear.

You're totally right, though, that the fact that the Mustang is just more civil to live with probably contributes a lot to why it outsells its competition. Also, earlier in the S550's run, it was cheaper by about $5K than the Camaro or Challenger. I paid under $30K for my base model 2017 GT, and the best deal I could find on a V8-powered Camaro or Challenger at the time was more like $35-40K.

I have no issues with the viz of the hood of my SS. Just the blind spot on the driver side I hate!


You're correct about the Mustang though. I said it many times. Since 2016 Ford dealers have been pushing the base model GT a lot. They sell on the lots too.



That's why I said Chevy dealers NEED to promote the LT1 more. And I don't mean dealers ordering an LT1 loaded up that's only 4k cheaper than a 2ss like a dealer by me does. They done this and the LT1 sat on the lot for awhile. You could buy a new 1SS for the same price or cheaper!


And the rare times I do see an LT1 base one on the lots NOT loaded up they typically sell pretty damn quick around here.


Dealers don't like carrying Camaros and Mustangs in general in my area, but when they do have Camaros it's usually loaded up 2ss, or 2ss rag tops.



Full of every option and 50k on up and they sit for months on the lot during normal times.


The base model Mustang GT is also cheaper as well. With similar performance numbers I can see why the Mustang GT outsells the Camaro due to PRICE.


Other than the driver side blind spot I just think the problem is with how the car is sold. The Mustang, especially the base model is just cheaper and easier to find.


Also, these base model Mustangs and the LT1s, Base model scatpacks, etc, even with no leather seats are still far more premium than a 2002 Camaro or Mustang. It's not like a total stripper muscle car with no AC from 1968. Still has a lot of features in it.


I had this problem in 2011 when buying my 5.0 I wanted a base model Coyote with just an auto transmission and save at least 5 grand. I didn't care about the horrible cheaper arse leather they use. I just wanted an auto transmission and the 5.0. None of the dealers carried them in stock. Order only and I had a trade in so that wasn't going to work well and ended up buying a premium.


Now Ford dealers carry them and sell the Sh*t out of the base model GT.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

I have no issues with the viz of the hood of my SS. Just the blind spot on the driver side I hate!

Out of curiosity, what is this driver side blind spot? The A pillar?

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Out of curiosity, what is this driver side blind spot? The A pillar?

B and C pillar areas an the tiny passenger side rear window.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

I have no issues with the viz of the hood of my SS. Just the blind spot on the driver side I hate!


You're correct about the Mustang though. I said it many times. Since 2016 Ford dealers have been pushing the base model GT a lot. They sell on the lots too.



That's why I said Chevy dealers NEED to promote the LT1 more. And I don't mean dealers ordering an LT1 loaded up that's only 4k cheaper than a 2ss like a dealer by me does. They done this and the LT1 sat on the lot for awhile. You could buy a new 1SS for the same price or cheaper!


And the rare times I do see an LT1 base one on the lots NOT loaded up they typically sell pretty damn quick around here.


Dealers don't like carrying Camaros and Mustangs in general in my area, but when they do have Camaros it's usually loaded up 2ss, or 2ss rag tops.



Full of every option and 50k on up and they sit for months on the lot during normal times.


The base model Mustang GT is also cheaper as well. With similar performance numbers I can see why the Mustang GT outsells the Camaro due to PRICE.


Other than the driver side blind spot I just think the problem is with how the car is sold. The Mustang, especially the base model is just cheaper and easier to find.


Also, these base model Mustangs and the LT1s, Base model scatpacks, etc, even with no leather seats are still far more premium than a 2002 Camaro or Mustang. It's not like a total stripper muscle car with no AC from 1968. Still has a lot of features in it.


I had this problem in 2011 when buying my 5.0 I wanted a base model Coyote with just an auto transmission and save at least 5 grand. I didn't care about the horrible cheaper arse leather they use. I just wanted an auto transmission and the 5.0. None of the dealers carried them in stock. Order only and I had a trade in so that wasn't going to work well and ended up buying a premium.


Now Ford dealers carry them and sell the Sh*t out of the base model GT.

Damn, that’s a serious ramble.

Let’s also not forget the Mustang just flat out has a much bigger fan base and following. Ford does plenty to screw up certain models and still people stand in line to buy them at market up prices. I bought my 1LE because it’s the best performance value of any of the three for track use. That and I’ve been more of a GM guy but I would buy a Mustang if I felt it was better for what I wanted.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Venomcustom

Damn, that’s a serious ramble.

Let’s also not forget the Mustang just flat out has a much bigger fan base and following. Ford does plenty to screw up certain models and still people stand in line to buy them at market up prices. I bought my 1LE because it’s the best performance value of any of the three for track use. That and I’ve been more of a GM guy but I would buy a Mustang if I felt it was better for what I wanted.

Don't forget incentives too! GM incentives generally SUCK. When I was shopping and considering new, the Chevy incentives were non existent. While the Mustang had rebates of a couple grand if I remember. I almost looked at a new 2021 base model Mustang GT, 10 speed. With rebates probably would have ticked under 35k right off the truck the dealer got two of them.


The only good incentive I saw was a local Chevy dealer and that was because they had FOUR 1ss left over 2020 and had their own dealer sale which brought them down to 37,500 with their in house incentive.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Out of curiosity, what is this driver side blind spot? The A pillar?

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

B and C pillar areas an the tiny passenger side rear window.

Super easy to eliminate with the correct mirror setting. How much of the side of your own car do you need to see in your mirror? For me it’s zero.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Super easy to eliminate with the correct mirror setting. How much of the side of your own car do you need to see in your mirror? For me it’s zero.

There are some very good tutorials on how to set up your mirrors. No one ever looks at them, everyone knows everything and don't need a stinking tutorial.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Super easy to eliminate with the correct mirror setting. How much of the side of your own car do you need to see in your mirror? For me it’s zero.

The only issue I notice is judging where the rear wheel is during tight right turns in parking structures. I compensate by starting the turn later than I otherwise would.

Otherwise. Visibility is not an issue. I can zig / zag through rush hour traffic without hesitation and without looking over my shoulder. It feels natural to drive this way.

FYI - A Brazilian colleague just passed his driving test here. He mentioned how odd it is that we emphasis looking over the shoulder to check blind spot. In Brazil, they teach you to use the mirrors because its unsafe to turn your head away from what is in front of you.

[FarmerFran]

[Chevelle vs Camaro]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

And like I said before Ford is pushing the base model GT was is a lot cheaper. Chevy should have pushed the LT1 more.

Ford does not push the base model. They make more on the upgrades than the car itself. If you go to a dealer they may have one or two bare bones base models.

And for those that do specialize in Mustangs they will carry more but a base at max will make up 10-20% of inventory.

Yes you do have a better chance of finding a base model mustang because Ford dealers will carry more Mustangs because they actually sell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

B and C pillar areas an the tiny passenger side rear window.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Super easy to eliminate with the correct mirror setting. How much of the side of your own car do you need to see in your mirror? For me it’s zero.

^ This. We have blind spot monitoring, too, as a backup/redundancy solution.

Also, driver side backward visibility glancing behind the shoulder is the best in the Camaro among the vehicles I've owned because of the long door and window.

The only genuinely problematic, although manageable, visibility situation is caused by the C pillar on the passenger side when making a left turn or merge at a very obtuse angle, one has to move around a bit to compensate for the small rear window.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Super easy to eliminate with the correct mirror setting. How much of the side of your own car do you need to see in your mirror? For me it’s zero.

this. the only time your car needs to be seen in the mirror is when youre backing up close to stuff.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Super easy to eliminate with the correct mirror setting. How much of the side of your own car do you need to see in your mirror? For me it’s zero.

This right here. I never had issues with visibility in my Camaro and I live in an urban area with 4 Interstates I travel on depending on where I go that have up to 3-5 lanes in each direction and have 130,000-220,000 vehicles per day according to KDot and MoDot. I have no issues in seeing traffic in either lane I want to go to in order to pass etc.



Towing decent size trailers for personal and/or work reasons taught me proper side mirror adjustment and usage. There are also other performance vehicles I have been in that had the same or worst visibility over the years but simple mirror adjustments fixed it there too. To this day I do not think the visibility issues are as bad as people are getting at and I have owned the car for almost a year and a half now and I had no issues doing the correct steps to make the issue go away.